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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Single 9mm bullets are cheap.
Commit a premeditated murder with a gun?
An eye for an eye.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Ron, as couchmaster says, none of this is new, Hamilton and Rove basically just refined it to a high art wrapped in endless social code words whereas it was all far more explicit in Hearst's 'yellow' journalism or any any number of other tracts of the era
I'm not at all without empathy for your situation. I'm just pointing out the radicalization of the right that's been underway is basically based on a mythology of social hysteria that - like in Hearst's time - takes advantage of the unfortunate situations of folks like yourself.
It's not unlike all the anti-chinese rhetoric and laws in the later 19th and early 20th centuries - the interests stirring up those xenophobic sentiments were the political and media proxies of the very moguls importing cheap Chinese labor for their mines and railroads. The only difference today is that labor force is largely latino. But you can't have it both ways with both cheap labor and no consequences - ditto for slavery. There is no free lunch as there are always deferred social and economic costs and consequences down the road for mass importation of cheap labor.
Hard to say what you should do about individual situation, but blaming Latinos for it hardly seems productive. What we need are less insane immigration and foreign labor policies.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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...will do nothing but inconvenience a bunch of people who have never done anything wrong in their lives...
And who need .50 cal sniper rifles and semi-automatics for what reason?
You could say the same thing about liquor and drunk driving laws - that they inconvenience us all and wouldn't have prevented this or that specific argument. Kind of a specious argument - reducing the overall gun load with large scale buybacks, locking down sales, and tracking individual guns would, over 20-30 years, help the problem significantly. Just like getting the economy out of the pit the republicans flushed it - there are no easy or quick fixes for the gun problem. It's going to take a decade or two or more to dig out of the hole we've dug.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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You tools still can't figure out the difference between semi-auto and fully-automatic, can you?
Semi-auto is trigger pull BANG, trigger pull BANG.
Full-auto is trigger pull BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG . . .
RIP to those who died for no reason.
RIH (Rot in Hell) ignorant, racist fool.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Can you cite one instance of a .50 rifle actually used in a crime?
In a free country, the onus for any new law is on the one proposing the change.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Can you cite one instance of a .50 rifle actually used in a crime?
Criminal Use of the 50 Caliber Sniper Rifle
Violence Policy Center
Branch Davidian cult members fired 50 caliber sniper rifles at federal agents during their initial gun battle on February 28, 1993. The weapons' ability to penetrate "any tactical vehicle in the FBI's inventory" prompted the agency to request military armored vehicles "to give FBI personnel adequate protection from the .50 caliber rifles" and other more powerful weapons the Branch Davidians might have had.
On February 27, 1992, a Wells Fargo armored delivery truck was attacked in a "military style operation" in Chamblee, Georgia, by several men using a smoke grenade and a Barrett 50 caliber sniper rifle. Two employees were wounded.
On April 28, 1995, Albert Petrosky walked into an Albertson's Grocery Store in suburban Denver, Colorado, and gunned down his estranged wife and the store manager. Armed with an L.A.R. Grizzly 50 caliber sniper rifle, an SKS Chinese semi-automatic assault rifle, a .32 revolver, and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol, Petrosky then walked out into the shopping center parking lot, where he exchanged fire with a federal IRS agent passing by and killed Sgt. Timothy Mossbrucker of the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department. Petrosky, who was known to his friends as "50-cal Al," fired all four weapons, including the 50 caliber rifle, during this murderous rampage.
On March 19, 1998, following an undercover investigation, federal law enforcement officers arrested three members of a radical Michigan group known as the North American Militia. The men were charged with plotting to bomb federal office buildings, destroy highways, utilities and public roads, and assassinate the state's governor, senior U.S. Senator, federal judges and other federal officials. All three were ultimately convicted. A 50 caliber sniper rifle was among the weapons found in their possession.
Wisconsin father and son James and Theodore Oswald were sentenced in 1995 to multiple life terms for armed robbery and the murder of a Waukesha police captain. The two had "a small armory of sophisticated and expensive weapons, including two custom-made .50-caliber rifles powerful enough to assault an armored car—which the two were considering doing," according to the Waukesha county sheriff.
In the summer of 1995, Canadian officials in British Columbia found a Barrett 50 caliber sniper rifle, 500 rounds of ammunition for it, and enough explosives to fill a five ton truck at a remote site. It is believed that members of a Texas militia group planned to set up a training camp at the site. Although at least one convicted felon was identified as a suspect, the investigation was dropped due to difficulties in prosecuting across national borders. The incident prompted one Texas Constitutional Militia official to observe, "We are not all raving maniacs. I'd kind of like to keep our lunatics on our side of the border."
According to the General Accounting Office, 50 caliber sniper rifles have been found in the armories of drug dealers in California, Missouri, and Indiana, and a federal investigation in 1999 was "targeting the movement of .50 caliber semi-automatic rifles from the United States to Mexico for use by drug cartels."
At least two persons have been charged with illegally making and selling 50 caliber sniper rifles. Robert W. Stewart of Mesa, Arizona, a convicted felon, is charged with felony possession of firearms by being in possession of Maadi-Griffin 50 caliber "kit guns" he was selling from his home, along with other firearms alleged to be in his possession. Stewart has become a folk hero among hard-line gun rights advocates and 50 caliber enthusiasts. He is distinguished, among other things, by his recent assertion that convicted felons have the right to have guns: "I don't care if he's a mass murderer, he killed 50,000 people. He still has a right to have a gun. A gun is just a tool."
Another convicted felon, Wayne Frank Barbuto, has been charged in Salt Lake with attempting to sell two 50 caliber sniper rifles to undercover federal agents. The government believes Barbuto manufactured the guns himself. It is not clear whether this refers to kit guns of the Maadi-Griffin type.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/581569/posts
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Again, shut down illegal employers and the problem largely fixes itself over the following decade. Latinos are not trying to take over the western US, we are giving it to them in exchange for dirt cheap labor. That they then organize in the process shouldn't be a surprise. I'd suggest stop focusing on and listening to radical, fundamentalists of all persuasions.
Also keep in mind that you live in what was formerly Alta California which was taken from Mexico by force in 1846 because of longstanding US designs on the Mexican territories which made up what is now the western US. Beyond the military capability of taking it, we had no legitimate claim to those territories of any kind, so it's more than a bit ironic that we needed to essentially repatriate Mexicans to those territories in order for us to operate them in a manner that will keep rich white folk rich.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I wonder what percentage it is feeling your freedoms are being taken away and what percentage it is entitlement?
For some people its all principle, and I like those people. For others its the give-a-mouse-a-cookie phenomina. We fuked up by making .50cals legal in any way, shape or form in the first place (the f*#k you need one of those for???? And I can't BASE jump half dome and eat mushrooms?).
You know what the right calls people that get privaleges and then refuse to give them up under any circumstances?
Socialists :)
I don't know what the answer is, certainly it's not to take handguns away from good people who are respectful and earn them. I would love to live in a country where I could own a Sherman Tank, and I don't mean to just throw out incredible hyperbole, but that would be bad ass. The PROBLEM is that this country is full of as#@&%es. When i was a kid we couldn't have a Nintendo because there were 6 kids and some of us would fight over. I sure as sh#t wanted one, but we weren't mature enough.
Maybe society isn't mature enough for fully automatic weapons. I know it sounds crazy, but maybe if you really, really want that stuff, with all of your might, you do what druggies and BASE jumpers do and go live somewhere you can go crazy with that sh#t. I don't have the perspective of someone living on a ranch in Wyoming or in June Lake or a tiny suburb of Detroit, I live in a shitty downtown area with bad meth problems and gang violence. I live in a completely different world than your average gun rights activist, and I think we could both use living in eachothers shoes. I've had childhood friends get killed on patrol with semi-automatic weapons, had drive by's near my neighborhood.
I know I say it over and over again, but guns are the hot forehead of a fever. You start much, much sooner. Improve the schools, improve the involvement of parents with their children, get kids outdoors and give them a reason to become something other than the piece of sh#t everyone says they are. THEN clean the community, get rid of meth houses (we all know where they are), dump money into the local law enforcement to patrol bad areas.
You'll notice, the guns will go away. But politics has kind of killed that route, so its super shitty. We just don't get to have guns, I guess : / Republicans won't give schools money and Democrats spend it on state employees instead of textbooks.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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The right way to deal with the second amendment is to pass a superseding amendment. Folks on the left hate that, so they undermine things at every turn to weaken the second amendment instead of using the tools the founders put into place.
Similarly, on the right we have abortion being undermined in the same way rather than following the constitution.
I own no guns, but want to keep my right to own them. I especially don't want law enforcement having guns when if I can't. Sorry, but there are plenty enough bad apples with Glocks that I don't want to give up my right to bear arms just yet.
I don't have a vagina, but want to keep the right to have an abortion on the table for those that do.
I haven't ever gone into the street with a sign to protest, but I still want my right to free speech.
So on.
Full autos are outlawed for the average Joe already. Heck places like New York won't even let you have a decent pocket knife legally. In my reading we are already on the slippery slope for many of our freedoms, so I'm sorry that I won't be joining the cry to tighten up gun laws much right now.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Don't need to amend the Constitution, just need to agree upon what an "arm" is and what it means to "bear" it.
That should be easy, right?
last week conservative Supreme Court Justice Anthony Scalia stated that in his opinion
the right of Americans to own weapons is limited by size to what they can "carry"
so, no Abrams Tanks, but shoulder fired RPGs should be good to own
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Sorry guys no gun problems just music so now it will be music, NRA off the hook again.
Page said in the “Uprise” interview that his music was a mix of '80s punk, metal and Oi!, a subgenre of punk.
“The topics vary from sociological issues, religion, and how the value of human life has been degraded by being submissive to tyranny and hypocrisy that we are subjugated to,” he said in the interview.
Looks like he would have fitted right in here on ST. Then again found out and banned or would he have?
Edit: Hope it wasn't a Fender or Gibson Their stocks might take a small dent.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Trust in Smith & Wesson to sort it out for you all
yep
because freedom ain't free
libs just don't get it on gun rights
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2012 - 05:41pm PT
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Shrimp, huh?
Seen any wolves lately?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2012 - 06:20pm PT
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Like the Sikhs who run all the convenience stores in the country?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Just check the voter registration, a big R means wacko, they should not be allowed to own guns, they are time bombs ready to blow
Well Dr. F, I guess by your reasoning I am a "wacko"
because my voter registration has a big ass "R" for Republican on it:
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Like the Sikhs who run all the convenience stores in the country?
just the Sikhs that give poor service
that makes me want to spit on them
but hey, I'm no bigot, some of my best friends here in New Mexico are Sikhs
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Ron, man, you're never going to help yourself emoting instead of thinking. Want to do something? Maybe start by identifying the top ten illegal employers in your area and find out something about who runs them.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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We live in violent times, for sure. Everyone seems to be spoiling for a fight; disagreements are a call to arms, political parties are so partisan as to be comical at this point. We just need a Nero to fiddle away while Rome burns.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2012 - 06:32pm PT
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Ron, I can't understand what you've written half the time...so I'm not even gonna respond.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Jesus h Christ, not only was he a dumbf*#k white supremacist, he was also a shitty ass "musician". How many bad names can one man give?
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