Alex Honnold come out of the closet...

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michaeld

Sport climber

Sacramento

Mar 9, 2012 - 04:22pm PT

It's okay to have a mutual respect for other religions and their beliefs (unless you're an extremist, then you basically want to cleanse the world of everyone not within your beliefs to the T) but as soon as someone is an Atheist, then they're immoral, disgraceful, sc#m-of-the-earth human beings, for.... why?

Oh, yeah, that was directed at you "Truthdweller"

go-B

climber

Habakkuk 3:19 Sozo

Mar 9, 2012 - 07:56pm PT

There's as much chance of no God as no chicken or egg!

luggi

Trad climber

from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car

Mar 9, 2012 - 08:24pm PT

Lolli

Understanding is not equal with accepting. I'm a coldhearted cynical bastard underneath, suspicious of hidden agendas and slippery cowardness.

If one understands a concept are they not accepting of the facts presented in the concept for the understanding to take place. ie..a complex mathematical formula..if you do not understand the concept, the facts to solve the problem are meaningless.

edit...it makes sense in my head...I am sure there are flaws with the logic that will be pointed out.

WBraun

climber

Mar 9, 2012 - 08:27pm PT

None of these guys here can think for themselves. None of em.

The minute they get hurt they run off to some physical therapist who tells them what to do.

One who can think for them selves can figure it out by themselves.

Thus it proves.

Everyone is stupid and needs to be told by someone what to do.

Who's telling you .... :-)

cintune

climber

Midvale School for the Gifted

Mar 9, 2012 - 08:43pm PT

OBEY.

Truthdweller

Trad climber

San Diego, CA

Mar 10, 2012 - 12:38am PT

Jan, no, actually, it was the Lord Himself that is ..."criticizing someone for the way they think and reason," that, "smacks of a very deep intolerance." Your "trust" is also, vanity.

"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." - Genesis 6:5

"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts..." - Isaiah 55:7a

"The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity." - Psalm 94:11

"The thoughts of the righteous are right: but the counsels of the wicked are deceit." - Psalm 12:5

"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." - Isaiah 55:9

"I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;" Isaiah 65:2

"O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?" - Jeremiah 4:14

"Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it." - Jeremiah 6:19

"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." - Matthew 15:11

"And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain." - 1 Corinthians 3:20

"...for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth." Genesis 8:21b

"... imagination of their own/evil heart." Jeremiah 3:17, 7:24, 9:14, 11:8, 13:10, 16:12, 18:12, 23:17, Luke 1:51.

"Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity." - Psalm 62:9

"The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. - Psalm 94:11

"Man is like to vanity: his days are as a shadow that passeth away. - Psalm 144:4

"The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem...

"I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem. And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith. I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit." - Ecclesiastes 1:1,12-14

"Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob...For I beheld, and there was no man; even among them, and there was no counsellor, that, when I asked of them, could answer a word. Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and confusion. Isaiah 41:21, 28-29

...and to save the best for last:

"...verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah."
Psalm 39:5

Truthdweller

Trad climber

San Diego, CA

Mar 10, 2012 - 12:47am PT

None of these guys here can think for themselves. None of em.

Glory to God for that Werner!

Now THAT comment means EVERYTHING, the Truth if I ever heard it!

Philippians 4:13:
"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."

Paul_in_Van

Trad climber

Near Squampton

Mar 11, 2012 - 03:36am PT

What a waste of electrons. Who the hell cares what Alex thinks or believes on the religious front.

TD, you come across as a closed minded religious nut. YG, may not have your belief system, but to his (her?) credit he is trying to have a reasonable conversation (however pointless).

I feel dirty for even getting involved.

P

Longstick

Social climber

Seattle, WA

Mar 11, 2012 - 09:17pm PT

Has anyone met a Christ-follower based on a scientific proof (evolution vs creation), archeological evidence, or analytical analysis.

Folks like me tend to be drawn to Him not out of our good-sense and sound-judgement. More akin to sensing an empty life, broken and needful. ... and a hand reaching out to me. His hand...His words...His truth....forgiveness and life. Don't get me wrong, I did not abandon my brain...though some would suggest. For reasons not worth mentioning. And yup, I embrace fully the truths of His life, words, miracles, and resurrection.

I find the account of Jesus betrayal the night before the crucifixion ...interesting. Timely, too. Now as Easter approaches. It illustrates my point: Peter chopped off the ear of another follower...that man was probably much like Peter...perhaps a bit of a zealot and brash. But, then ..his ear was healed, blammo... healed on-site by Jesus. Are you kidding me? Why that miracle did not stop them in their tracks is a window into mankind. Who did that man and those witnesses to the miracle think Jesus was? Shouldn't they have fallen down in awe...and wonderment?

Nope. Jesus was not what they wanted. His life, they were not drawn towards. Their interests, well they were elsewhere. That is the stuff repeated every day.

And so it seems to go.

jstan

climber

Mar 11, 2012 - 10:26pm PT

Nope. Jesus was not what they wanted. His life, they were not drawn towards. Their interests, well they were elsewhere. That is the stuff repeated every day.

And so it seems to go.

A seminal inference.

Jesus if he yet exists, has to be tortured by his failure.

Has he been consigned - to Hell

by us?

Truthdweller

Trad climber

San Diego, CA

Mar 11, 2012 - 11:46pm PT

TD, you come across as a closed minded religious nut. YG, may not have your belief system, but to his (her?) credit he is trying to have a reasonable conversation (however pointless).

I feel dirty for even getting involved.

Thanks Paul, glory to God for your remarks. I cant help but to see the striking similarities in you're remarks as Festus replied to Paul (once Saul) who was describing his conversion, "with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad."

It would be fitting to reply, to you, just as Paul did to Festus, "I am not mad, most noble Festus (Paul); but to speak forth the words of truth and soberness." - Acts 26:24-25

"Closed minded"? ABSOLUTELY...to the world's system!

Romans 12:2 KJV

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

It's about time I got my "brain-washed" from all the lies in this world!

Only the truth makes free Paul,

Glory to God

Truthdweller

Trad climber

San Diego, CA

Mar 11, 2012 - 11:58pm PT

How did Jesus (God) fail jstan?

Patrick Oliver

Boulder climber

Fruita, Colorado

Mar 13, 2012 - 09:53am PT

All through my life I've been surrounded by all sorts of
individuals and all sorts of beliefs or lack of belief. It has
never really concerned me, because I have always liked people.
When I met Royal, for example, he was an atheist. He was young
and very self-confident. Alex actually reminds me quite a bit
of Royal. Both were a bit ahead of their time, or certainly leaders
in their day. Later in life Royal had some personal experiences
that changed his way of seeing things. Layton too converted to
his religion. I wasn't about to love Layton any less, no matter how much
I may have disagreed with some of the dictates of his religion.
I've had the best time in the world with powerful atheists, such as
Higgins and Kamps, and I do not love them any less because of
their take on life. I have had the same good experiences with Frost,
a man who always seemed about as honest and spiritual
as a person could be, in my experience, genuinely true. Everyone
is imperfect, though, and has shortcomings. Kim Miller, a devout
friend is an inspiration as a climber and person... and so forth.
My love for these people, and there are countless others I haven't
named, simply does not
hinge on what they believe. I think it might be kind of conditional,
to say the least,
to love people only if they adhere to my perspective on life. I would
have nothing to learn from anyone if I had it all figured out
to a tight molecule. And
whatever I believe, in general I feel one should keep relatively quiet
about it. If you believe, pray in the closet as the scriptures say.
Don't pray to be
seen of men, as these television evangelists do. If I understand John
Long, he is saying what we believe is personal and mostly can only be
understood by us as individuals. I agree with that. Yet people get
on their high horses and from all points along the spectrum of
belief, from atheist to fully committed spiritually. Individuals
sound their call of confidence in their own view of things and
often seem threatened by the differing views of others.
Life is such a fantastic mystery, so very deep and beautiful, so
eternally complex. Why would I ever want to think I have it all
figured out, in the short course of years that is my life?
For myself, I think, I must in large measure stand back and
try to observe, rather than make all my determinations at such
a young age as... oops I'm 65 now. But that's a young age in some
relative sense, I suppose. When I hear my friend Jim Donini say,

"Every serious inquiry into the efficacy of prayer has come up
with zilch. Prayer cannot be shown to have the slightest
effect on the outcome of events with the possible
exception of a few placebo cases,"

I will say... First of all, Jim, I don't attack you for saying
such a thing. I will admit it struck me at first as incomprehensibly
inexperienced. Yet I believe you are real and feel that way. I don't
have to disagree with you. Rather maybe you could view me more
like a colleague on a debate team, and prior to some big debate
perhaps where I, your mate, ask you a few things that I know
others might ask. For example, where do you
find these "inquiries?" How can anyone
measure the complexity of experience among so many millions of
people? It seems so simple to make a broad one-sentence
exclammatory remark. One could as easily say,
"According to every inquiry into the subject, no one who climbs
has ever had a very profound experience." Well, maybe that's
not the best analogy, but yours and that statement feel
related. I can't imagine such
inquiries are very accurate or all-encompassing or of much
worth at all, to whatever degree beyond primitive they in fact
exist, and in consideration of how many people are involved
through an infinity of decades and centuries. Clearly when so
many people (on both sides of the belief spectrum)
are intelligent, that's not going to be the deciding issue.
When Einstein said he believed in God, one can imagine
he took in a little science
along the way and did not dismiss too many possibilities. It
was interesting to watch Dylan go from Jewish to Christian,
in his spiritual investigations, and then around other
turns after that. We're speaking of people who may not
have it all right, but whom, I would hope we can agree,
are intellectually curious and searching?

I put forth no argument here, as to whether or not prayer works
or whether or not God exists. I do, however, question the worth,
of comments that seem to negate one way of thinking or another,
in a broad convenient sweep..., when the world of experience is
so infinite and immeasurable and when it probably is
completely beyond even the richest imagination to tap,
except in the slightest way,
the depths of experience that make up humanity at large.
When people tell me things that seem strange or far fetched,
why do I need to doubt them? Even when people say they don't
believe, I must first respond with a certain respectul acceptance
of their experience, and I must trust their point of view -- whatever
my own beliefs might be.

ground_up

Trad climber

mt. hood /baja

Mar 13, 2012 - 11:00am PT

" I don't pray to god , I pray to Joe Pesci ..why? Cuz he seems
to be the kind of guy that gets sh%t done" George Carlin

Gene

climber

Mar 13, 2012 - 11:11am PT

Nice post, Patrick Oliver!

g

Klimmer

Mountain climber

San Diego

Mar 15, 2012 - 09:44am PT

NASA Scientist Fired for his Faith

I'm very careful not to talk about my faith or my beliefs at work. I suppose we all must be careful no matter what side of the fence you are on . . .

But this is ridiculous. He was the most senior researcher on the project with excellent reviews for all his many years/time at JPL. Yes, he shared a few DVDs with co-workers. Doesn't sound as though he was holding a gun to their head or forcing them to watch. He shared some DVDs on Intelligent Design because they seemed to be interested in it.

Then JPL fired him. Perhaps he should bring up JPL's founder, Jack Parson, and his dark history in the occult? He had others in JPL involved in the occult in the early days of JPL also. You can read all about it in the book "Dark Mission: NASA's secret history" by Richard Hoagland and Mike Bara. There may even be an occult connection today safely hidden from everyone's view. Dark Mission suggests so.

NASA has a direct Nazi Germany connection. Google "Operation Paperclip." It's well known now that Hitler and his officers within the Nazi Party were heavy, heavy into the occult. Read the book, "The Nazis and the Occult: The Dark Forces Unleashed by the Third Reich" by Paul Roland.

All of our modern science founding fathers of Faith would be rolling in their graves: Aristotle, Copernicus, Tycho Brahe, Johannes Kepler, Galileo, Newton and on and on.

So it begins . . .

http://news.yahoo.com/video/science-15749654/nasa-scientist-fired-for-his-faith-28596512.html

Edit:
By the way, Google "March, Mars, 322, Skull and Crossbones, the occult, and Georgia Guidestones" and you will get an eye full. And yes they are all connected in some bizarre way. 3-22 happens to be a high power evil holy (actually unholy) day for the occult world.

Further Edit:

There is only one true GOD (The Trinity) -- The GOD above all others (YHWY and YESHUA). But there are many GODs. Even the Bible says so.

Isn't it funny how some people can't get there head around the idea that there is more than just us out there. That there is more intelligent life out there. And this intelligent life or intelligent spirits or entities are far more advanced than we are.

These people take on a idealogical fixed-in-stone view that there is no GOD or GODs out there. They point to Evolution all happening on its own without a designer as evidence (the evidence doesn't suggest this, but they ignore the evidence contrary to their wishful view), and therefore proof positive that GOD doesn't exist or GODs don't exist.

Yet, there are people in positions of power in government and other institutions that not only know that GOD exists or GODs exist, but that they even actively worship and allow themselves to be manipulated by GOD's enemies -- Lucifer and his host of Fallen Angels. Those into the occult and all of it's many factions and practices. They not only know that GOD or GODs exist, they hate the one true GOD and purposefully rebel against GOD and serve their master and the enemy of GOD, Lucifer, the god of this world. And sometimes they don't even hide it.

So you have those who know that GOD is indeed real, and believe, and have faith and worship GOD. Those of Faith.

Then you have those who know that GOD is indeed real, but choose to purposefully rebel against GOD, and hate GOD, and choose to go with GOD's enemy and all who rebel against GOD. Those who have Faith, but who rebel against GOD.

Then you have those who aren't really sure what to believe, whether GOD exists or not. The Agnostics. Those who are clueless and can't make up their mind just yet one way or the other.

Then you have those who say and believe that GOD or GODs don't exist, and never did and never will. The Atheists. These are those who have their heads buried in the sand, with their eyes closed, and their fingers in their ears. All the evidence in the World seems to not matter. They don't want GOD to exist, so they believe he never has or that he ever will. It is willful ignorance.

fear

Ice climber

hartford, ct

Mar 15, 2012 - 10:35am PT

I'm curious.... And I sincerely mean no offense.

How do intelligent people that really believe in one organized religion or another reconcile the existence of at least another 15 current 'mainstream' religious belief systems? What about the 1000 religions that have existed since we began to scrawl on rock walls?

I understand the need for some kind of spirituality, but I fail to see in this modern age how one chooses to believe in just one set of evolving stories and strange rules clearly created by other men often over thousands of years. (i.e. the jewish carpenter, the bull, the sun-god, etc....)