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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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From ABC news on line
Last Update: Friday, February 4, 2005. 11:27am (AEDT)
Iraqi villagers kill 5 insurgents
By Middle East correspondent Mark Willacy
The residents of a small Iraqi village have killed five insurgents who had attacked them for voting in last weekend's national elections.
Several other insurgents were also wounded.
The insurgents raided the village of al-Mudhiryah south of Baghdad after warning its inhabitants not to vote in the election.
The villagers fought back, killing five of the insurgents and wounding eight others.
The insurgents' cars were then set alight.
Al-Mudhiryah's tribal sheikh says his people are sick of being threatened by Islamic extremists.
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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TGT, I have to say that's pretty cool. Always good to see folks standing up to bullies.
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wildone
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Ha!
And occupation made that hatred wane?
wow.
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Definitely. Hopefully this was a strong turning point and Iraqis will be fed up with the insurgency and demand stability and non-violence from here on out. If they can be empowered by this process then we are on the road to good things.
"Get ready for the rise of US imperialism. The cultures of the middle east have been unable to function since the invention of Islam. "
Unable to function? Sh#t man. Christian states don't exactly have a great track record for fostering open, egalitarian socities. I seem to recall the first 1450 years in the Christian calendar being based around killing other people in the name of bringing them civilization. Oh wait...I guess the other 550 years was based around that too.
"They already hated us."
What?!?! Jody what are you talking about? Look at those pictures in your first post. They clearly love us! ;-) And they hate 'us' (mainly meaning Bush and our government) because we have been 'occupiers' in a sense over there for a long, long time. We have troops over there, we supply guns and money and we manipulate their governments for access to their oil. They didn't just up and decide to hate us one day Jody. They don't hate us for our freedom or some crap like that. It's a cause and effect situation...you just don't want to acknowledge the cause.
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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"They have been attacking our interests for decades...how exactly did we cause that?"
Attacking our interests for decades? So in the 19th century Arab muslim extremists were sailing to the Americas and attacking our trade ships or something?
They have been attacking our interests because we have forced OUR interests upon THEM in THEIR region since we decided to get better access to oil for our companies! If Iran and Syria had military bases in Canada and Mexico and were actively meddling in regional affairs to have better access to resources in the US don't you think we'd be kind of pissed about it? If they had in the past sponsored coups and directly interfered with the workings of our government, wouldn't you harbor some resentment? Especially if you felt powerless to stop them?
If you think that this was just something that randomly happened, that America was just walking down the street one day and arabs got pissed at us for being there you are sorely mistaken.
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Ouch!
climber
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"Elections and democracy are heresy"
Sounds like the Bush and Rove philosophy. We _can_ learn from other people.
Remember, a hand in the bush is worth a lot to a bird.
We really need to send more fundamentalist missionaries to the Middle East. We have waay too many to go around here. Jody, if you're able to climb, why aren't you in Iraq, instead of being a cheerleader, far from harm's way?
The world needs more javelin catchers.
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Matt
Trad climber
moving to the RIGHT
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here's a question for you chicken-hawk conservative apologists:
just suppose, instead of fighting a pre-emptive(sp?) war based upon trumped up bogus intel, we had just bought everyone in iraq off..
say 2 or 3 billion for mr hussein to vacate
a couple mil for each member of his family to follow
a mil for each of his higher ups
100 mil for each major tribe
1/2 mil for each tribal cheif
10k for each member of the armed forces in iraq
and then we'd gone ahead w/ this planned democracy
woulda cost us less
would have fewer terrorists
we'd surely all be safer today
the arabs would be somewhere between scratching their heads and praising the new selfless american aapproach to sharing global resources
and nobody woulda been bombed to oblivion
maybe there'd be a few car bombs anyway, but the iraqis (whom we claim to be so interested in helping) would be far better off
and haliburton could stil be raking in the big taxpayer financed bucks
everyone would have won
but gW wouldn't look like such a tough guy
and hannity/oriely et. al. would have less to wank about on tv
i know we'd all rather spend all those billions and billions of $ on bombs and missles...
but just ask yourself, what if?
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Ouch!
climber
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"Another worn out cliche from the liberal handbook."
Not worn out. Completely valid. Sending someone else to die for personal and economic agendas is the trademark of this administration.
Want war? get off your ass and go fight one. Bet you won't wish for another phony war.
You should have been born in Alabama. Buford Bob, the natural warrior.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Another first hand account of all the "evil" we are doing over there.
"Email from Dave - Jan 30, 05
Dear Dad –
Today, the interim Iraqi Government held elections. I am not sure how the media is portraying the day’s events; but I thought you might want to know how things went here in Fallujah.
Part of the motivation for the attack on insurgents in Fallujah back in November was to set the conditions for successful elections to be held 30 January. It was understood going into the attack that Fallujah had become a source of instability and violence that radiated to all corners of Iraq. If the insurgent leadership headquarted inside the city was not directly projecting operations to cities as far away as Basrah or Mosul, their activities and overt posture undoubtedly inspired insurgents in other parts of the country to continue.
Once the Marines, Soldiers and Sailors were finally turned loose on the muj in the city, they dealt the enemy a crushing defeat. As I have described to you earlier, one of the most effective weapons the insurgents have employed to date is their propaganda. They lord over the people of Iraq by maintaining a very credible atmosphere of fear and intimidation. However, they also focus their information efforts inward.
When recruiting a 22-year-old Syrian or sustaining the morale of a 19-year-old Saudi, the mantra concerning Fallujah was common: “The Americans will never enter the city. They are afraid to fight us face-to-face and their people will never accept the casualties necessary to remove us from the city.” We know this to be true. Their information efforts were very effective and resulted in a brazen defiance among the muj and a life of fear and subjugation among the people.
When the Marines finally took the city, it was a tremendous psychological defeat to the enemy in addition to the obvious tremendous losses in enemy personnel and supplies. The dogged, relentless pursuit lead by the Captains and Sergeants in hunting down the final pockets of enemy inside the city and destroying them in exceptionally close and violent engagements following the main battle further cemented November’s losses. It is becoming obvious that the inescapable reality of the insurgents’ plight and the foundation of lies upon which they pinned their cause in the end was both obvious to them and to the population that was watching closely from the edges of the city as well.
In the ensuing weeks as the population returned, the Marines have committed an amazing effort to cleaning the city and coexisting with the people. The planning and work that went into November’s offensive was extensive but now it pales in comparison to the effort that has been made to make the city livable again while building a relationship with the people of Fallujah themselves.
The Marines’ days have been spent mentoring new Iraqi soldiers, removing debris, delivering potable water to tanks placed throughout the city, organizing civic leadership, and a myriad of other tasks you would never expect of young men who fought so hard to take the city at great personal cost. However, even as these humanitarian efforts continue daily, the Marines know that the enemy wants nothing more than to re-enter the city and return it to the violent abyss where it resided at the beginning of November. It is impossible for me to put into words how these young men are able to travel the spectrum of violence and emotions every day and simply continue to deliver without failure. It is easy to become cynical and believe that the local people do not appreciate the positive aspects of the effort. Today, it appears as if they do.
During the weeks leading up to the elections, the enemy had been relentless in his threats and posturing against the people and has made it very clear that anyone who attempted to vote would be killed. Compared to the average American, the Iraqi people have lived a life of extreme violence and fear. Because of this, the insurgents’ threats did not fall on deaf ears.
In all honesty, we expected a very light turnout at the polls in Fallujah. To provide just a couple of specific examples of the terror campaign that has been ongoing in this area consider the following:
Several days ago, in the area just south of the city, Marines found a local sheik dead in the road. His hands were tied behind his back and he had been shot from behind. On his body, a rock was placed over a note that read that the sheik was cooperating with coalition forces and that anyone else who did so would meet the same fate.
Down the road in Ramadi, two Iraqi Solders were kidnapped, beheaded and left in the street. Their heads were placed on their bodies and cigarettes had been put in their mouths.
Rumors of huge explosions and suicide attacks on polling places were widely circulated.
With this backdrop in mind, today’s elections began shortly after dawn. Even though the days for the Marines here tend to run together, this morning was different. By dawn, the Regiment had surged and both Iraqi Soldiers and Americans canvassed the streets.
Five polling places were established inside Fallujah. As the polling stations opened, trucks of Iraqi Soldiers began arriving to vote at one of the primary stations. The enthusiasm of the Iraqis surprised the Marines. Watching them move past the Marines and Iraqis on the perimeter of the site and then reemerge from the polling tent, the best description I can offer was “joyful.” They got it. As bleak as things have seemed to them over the past two years, this morning was a tangible reward for their personal courage and sacrifice.
As the locals saw the Iraqi Soldiers emerging from the polling tent and exchanging handshakes with the Marines, they began to slowly emerge from their houses. The Regimental CO ordered the PSYOP trucks to begin broadcasting wake up calls extolling the locals that the polling centers were open and secure and that the people should come out and vote.
Seeing must have been believing because before we knew it, they were emerging from their houses and moving into line to vote. The first person I actually saw go into the polling tent was a woman who came out alone. Others soon followed. Even after everything the Marines have seen, it was an amazing site.
Nearby, the Marines were walking through a recently established open-air market on a street corner. People gathered around and informal conversations began between them and the Marines. This same intersection had been a muj strong point just weeks before. This morning, Marines and locals were on the same intersection shooting the breeze as elections were taking place down the block. As the day went on, more and more people came out to vote. The positive atmosphere seemed to build.
Just a few images as the day progressed:
HMMWV’s parked in the median of the main avenue through town with Marines hanging out talking with Iraqis as they walked to the polling center.
A few people actually seeking Marines, Soldiers and Sailors out on the street and thanking them relating that it was the first time in their lives their votes meant something.
A truck pulling up to a polling site overflowing with Iraqi Soldiers going to vote. The Soldiers were actually singing in the back of the truck and then jogging through the wire to get to the polling station.
Kids going through the polling centers with their parents.
Kids lined up outside the polling centers to watch.
Marines on rooftops overwatching the polling centers taking in the first free elections in an area they literally just fought through weeks before.
The RCT SgtMaj attaching a full sized Iraqi flag to the back of his vehicle and driving through the city being greeted by thumbs up and shouts of encouragement from both the Iraqi soldiers and citizens.
Of course not everyone voted in Fallujah today but just under eight thousand people did. No one expected such a turn out and any voting in Fallujah at all seemed like fantasy just three months ago.
There are no delusions here as the insurgency is still alive and well and the Marines know that Fallujah remains a dangerous place. There is still much work to be done. Just outside the city, guys were still fighting their tails off today. But for one day in Fallujah it was great to watch the Marines and Iraqi Soldiers enjoy a little success that they sacrificed so much to earn.
Tomorrow will probably be back to business as usual. However, even after all that the Marines have seen and been through you could see it on their faces - Today was a good day.
See you soon,
Dave
http://www.thegreenside.com/story.asp?ContentID=11831
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j_ung
Social climber
Charlotte, NC
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Read today's news, conservatives. Candidates backed by Shiite clerics have a commanding lead. The new Iraqi democracy will be a Shiite theocracy. There's a very good chance that all of our efforts will amount to a second Iran. Pakistan, Syria, Saudi Arabia... I don't think any of them would elect a secular government given the chance. If Pakistan held free elections tomorrow, we'd be hosed.
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Ouch!
climber
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Tales told as religious experiences. With the vision of a crawdad peeping from under a flat rock. Can't see a lot.
Confusing the warrior with the war.
If I can't make you believe what I purport to believe, you are my enemy.
Eyes grown too close together from peeping too long down crawdad holes. Tunnel vision. Cyclops in Dixie. Look Away! Look Away! Hot Dang! That thumper keg is steamin'. Sukie May, Yo ass git enny bigger, I'm gonna put a crupper on you and hitch you to a singletree.
We humans are quaint little boogers.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Fattrad says
"Interesting idea, but the brainwashed religious clerics have been difficult to buy off in the past."
Is that why we just handed Iraq over to them? 'Cause we couldn't buy them off?
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Actually we are trying to buy them off. Notice that nobody is talking about "winning hearts and minds" anymore. Its co-opting. I think it is probably the right way to go since we probably don't have a lot of heart and mind street cred (though after Sunday that has got to be growing).
I will say that I am glad that Bush pushed for the elections to be held on Sunday. It has at the very least given us a short reprieve while the votes are tallied and we see who 'won' and who will throw a fit about it.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Aug 25, 2005 - 06:58pm PT
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just because, it makes for good tv...?
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Good Morning!
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Aug 25, 2005 - 07:17pm PT
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Well, Jody, it wasn't quite that easy was it?
How does that shoe leather taste?
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Aug 25, 2005 - 07:58pm PT
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yup-
gW is the best president ever!
i even have his picture on my wall...
in the bathroom, actually-
right next to the toilet-
ok ok ok-
you're right-
i didn't hang his picture up in the bathroom!
but his picture is in my bathroom, it's right there on the roll of toilet paper, on every single square! it's a beautiful thing too...
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Aug 25, 2005 - 08:08pm PT
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"...bad tacos..."
good laughs, thanks dood.
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Watusi
Social climber
Joshua Tree, CA
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Aug 26, 2005 - 12:52am PT
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Just as long as we can get some of our kids home...When do we leave? Now let's just kiss and make up?
Now what about the GAS????
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