Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Jun 23, 2010 - 11:02pm PT
|
Skipper, obviously you have no idea how dense you sound.
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Jun 23, 2010 - 11:03pm PT
|
bluering you don't think anyone is responsible for anything so long as they're on your "side." Get over it.
If Rahm Emanuel told the WSJ that Sarah Palin was a such and such you'd be all up on these forums hollering for Obama to "take responsibility" and questioning his judgment and blah blah blah. People are responsible for what those under them do. That's why they are IN CHARGE of those people.
philo said Skipper, obviously you have no idea how dense you sound.
No he doesn't care because he'll just watch how the posting plays out and then edit his posts to make it look like he said something different.
|
|
Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Jun 23, 2010 - 11:28pm PT
|
Blue wrote: I think you guys are full of crap with this BS that he's responsible for what his aides say. So a platoon Srgt is responsible for a grunt mouthing off abouth the prez? Or a general? NO!
So why do you blame Acorn for what some of their employees do???
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
|
|
|
Jun 23, 2010 - 11:31pm PT
|
Actually, he IS ultimately responsible. You ARE responsible for what your subordinates do or say.
Protocol. And decorum. Cheers, Chief.
A soldier or a sailor is NOT just an employee.
Do you ask your employees to die, or risk same?
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Jun 23, 2010 - 11:34pm PT
|
Bob said So why do you blame Acorn for what some of their employees do???
Easy now. Don't be using his own words against him.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 12:10am PT
|
It is their place to say NOTHING, Blue.
The Military is NOT a Democracy.
This is not true..
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 12:13am PT
|
Oh, it's true, alright.
How in Hell could YOU know, anyway? No offense.
|
|
Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Tahoe City/Talmont , CA
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 12:27am PT
|
Played golf with my neighbor and his old navy buddies over the weekend.
Boy they were letting Obama have it.
I kept my mouth shut because I really wanted to hear their perspective on things.
Spoke with one of them today and he completely changed his tune about Obama.
He thought that McChrystol was a stand-up guy but he totally blew it.
He said that Obama did the right thing by upholding the chain of command rules, which is what the military is all about ( respect for leadership - and the following of orders - regardless ) and and that "he really does have a backbone!"
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 12:53am PT
|
He COULD.
Folks would jump ALL over THAT.
It'd be a seriously weak sauce move.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 01:11am PT
|
Obama could have kept the General on if he wanted
Yes, but he would have crippled the war(or withdrawl)effort by doing so.
I am not a big fan of our President's policies but I completely support his decisions in this matter. I also disagree strongly with the "pundits" who say that he embarrassed the General by bringing him back to DC to relieve him. I thought Obama was gracious to the extreme in his remarks regarding McChrystal's service.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but the big question, the elephant in the corner remains... CentCom. This is the big decision.
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 01:26am PT
|
Don't worry Skippy, General McPropaganda is still a general. He is just no longer in charge of the Afghan theater. At least he didn't have to throw himself on his sword like the good old days.
Yes it is the Presidents decision no doubt about it. No one here disputes that. What was being discussed was the appropriateness of the Joint Chiefs suggesting his removal. No matter he is gone as he should be.
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 01:28am PT
|
He's Done, now, Philo.
Put out to pasture. He'll be retired.
Betcha.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 01:40am PT
|
A decisive win in Marjah by anyone's measure.
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 02:09am PT
|
lets get Proxmire back.
he will kick some ass.
howabout ollie north?
or maybe gen. swartzcough?
or maybe another bong load and a CSN&Y tape?
then War Pigs by Saaaaaaaaabbbbbbaaaaaaaaaaathhhhhhhhh...
generals gathered in their masses,
just like witches at black masses,
in the fields the bodies burning,
as the war machine keeps turning...
oh yeah, now,
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 02:10am PT
|
Just back from a nice afternoon climbing.
Every US president, in every major war, has had general troubles. Incompetents, generals who weren't paying attention to the part about the military being ultimately subject to the politicans, generals who are too full of themselves, generals who say foolish things in public. Nothing new there at all. Lincoln, Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman, Johnson - they all had the same problems.
DMT: Afghanistan did not attack the US. Afghanistan did not draw first blood. Sorry, you're wrong there. The Taliban leaders in Afghanistan choose to offer sanctuary to bin Laden and al Qaeda in the mid 1990s, knowing their ideology and goals, and supported them. Once al Qaeda was identified as the cause of 11/9, the Taliban were given the evidence, and asked to surrender the main criminals. They refused to do so. Offering sanctuary to international criminals - terrorists - who attacked another country is a de facto if not de jure declaration of war.
The US and its allies were entirely within their rights under international law to make war on Afghanistan. Noting that it is in fact an alliance of NATO countries, and that 1/4 to 1/3 of the troops have not been from the US. 149 Canadians have so far died there. Canada wouldn't be involved if we didn't believe that it was justified under international law, and if we didn't hope (perhaps vainly) that it might improve make Afghanistan a little better.
Canada very deliberately did not contribute to the adventure in Iraq, and our only real choice was whether to do so quietly or noisily. We unfortunately chose the former.
The incompetence with which Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld prosecuted the war, particularly in allowing bin Laden et al to escape, and then in leaving seriously unfinished business when they started their imperial war in Iraq, are quite another matter.
It is a very open question as to whether the result would have been different had NATO gone into Afghanistan in 2001 with sufficient troops and resources to really make a difference, and committed to making it happen. That is, not only oust and capture the criminals, but foster a reasonably stable and competent government, reasonable services, and an economy not based on trafficking opium. Perhaps the place is hopeless. Somewhat academic, perhaps, given that a main object of the war was to show terrorists, potential terrorists, and their backers the penalty for their actions.
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 02:17am PT
|
Spoke with one of them today and he completely changed his tune about Obama.
He thought that McChrystol was a stand-up guy but he totally blew it.
He said that Obama did the right thing by upholding the chain of command rules, which is what the military is all about ( respect for leadership - and the following of orders - regardless ) and and that "he really does have a backbone!"
Thanks for posting this. I think he knew he needed to make this call. Being magnanimous plays well to the left but the military couldn't care less. That he had Patreus to fall back on is truly a blessing.
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 02:17am PT
|
A bit of Latin always adds some class, plus John E likes it.
LOL, MH. The irony is that I know French, and I spoke Armenian before I spoke English, but the only Latin I know is from singing, economics, logic and law school.
John
Edit: Agree, HDDJ.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 04:41am PT
|
I think you guys are full of crap with this BS that he's responsible for what his aides say.
My understanding is that those remarks were made right in front of the general, which makes him doubly responsible for not stopping that BS right then
peace
Karl
|
|
go-B
climber
In God We Trust
|
|
|
Jun 24, 2010 - 09:23am PT
|
Proverbs 24:21, My son, fear the Lord and the king,
and do not join with those who do otherwise,
22 for disaster will arise suddenly from them,
and who knows the ruin that will come from them both?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!