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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Dane Burns said:
"Boots? Where in hell can you still buy new Super Guides?!"
This link appeared in a thread a while ago:
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/galibier/super-guide/review/4766/
I had a better one; an actual ordering page in English.
Sadly I didn't keep the better link as I thought I had (not that I would actually order a pair, but for anecdote’s sake...).
So just now I found the current French catalog, in some sort of Euro/PDF format:
http://www.auvieuxcampeur.com/
Terre > Produits > Chassures > Alpinisme > Alpinisme et Technique > 4 page turns right…
VOILA!!!
Yup!
And they give the weight in my size: 42
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2009 - 03:30pm PT
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Thanks for the reflections on Don. Definitely a brilliant but tragically short life. His bizarre demise was another twist in the Huntington-Harvard Route saga. Who knows what he would have bitten off?
I went looking in Mountain of My Fear for a shot of Don only to find that he was the cameraman, hence nothing. I believe there is a photo of him in slings wearing one of his frameless packs in the 1972 Chouinard catalog. Can't find mine.
Don't leave out Keeler's on Batso's backcountry hitlist.
Pretty hard to imagine Norman Clyde having a great time in the Valley! LOL
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Quick note, as I see lots of new activity.
Welcome Dane! I love the way the sweep of your experience fills us in all the way to the present. I'd been wondering how the latest generations of ice tools perform compared to our mouldering recollections, so thanks for that. It would be fun to get back on ice at least enough to feel that new gear. Monopoint crampons? They seem intriguing in a similar way to the action of a Hummingbird, which would swivel effortlessly if you sidestepped. I have had my hands on the new BD screws, which bite like razors compared to even their earlier ones. Amazing to set them without having to use your axe like a brace and bit for leverage.
YC took that ballsy shot of Tompkins soloing through spindrift (I think he said that was the tail-end of a small avalanche, which accounts for the hunkered-down posture) on their 1970 trip to Scotland noted by Alan Fyffe. He had a tiny point-and-shoot camera, and I've always thought that was his finest photo with it. There was a 3' x 4' blowup of it right in your face as you walked into the first GPIW store in Ventura.
looking again at all those classic shots of Scots at play, Yvon's image of Tompkins stands out in several ways. Starting with obvious water ice instead of rime. In spite of that, Tompkins looks rock-steady on those fine Chouinard crampons. I can't quite believe the locals persisted in making do with Salewas. Maybe they couldn't get Chouinard iron? They certainly don't seem to be using YC's axes or alpine hammers either.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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DR wrote of Don Jensen:
"Built paper-mache relief models of both the Palisades and the Alaska Range."
Most excellent histories you're penning for us here Doug!!!
I trust you save this stuff in a notebook, or file somewhere, being the consummate writer that you are...
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Save it? (gulp...)
I love that this stuff is all archived here. Feels so right for us to be jointly working the history. I know I'm learning a lot from the way our different points-of-view are coming together. But just in case, I guess I should back it up. Everything else on my computer is, including The Alchemy of Action book as it rolls out, which is my hot project these days. After years of dormancy and even fear of it, I'm actually writing on it almost aggressively. I look forward to sharing that too.
I wonder if C-Mac has this Forum backed up somehow? Don't know anything about servers, but collectively this place has become the best history and commentary on a lot of people, times, events.
When I was editing my articles for A Night on the Ground... my publisher Gilberto d'Urso of Mountain N' Air books came up with the wonderful idea of amplifying the sketches of people I had encountered. From Chuck Pratt to Tim Harrison to Don Jensen and Galen Rowell I did a lot of that, stalling the appearance of the book for a year or two in the process. Anyway, Gilberto's point has become a theme with me now that all these times are slipping into history. So I have written pieces about Pratt when he died (think I posted it up here, or I will again), and a long piece about Galen that got hacked short to fit into the Sierra Club's retrospective. I could put up the full version of that. And I think of the portrait of Steve McKinney. I have a down-the-road intention of putting all those into another selected works, along with such recent low points of my perspective on this life as becoming an unrepentant rap-bolter. But for the immediate future I'm excited about getting The Alchemy of Action to see daylight.
So thanks for the thought. I'll scoop the Don Jensen fragments off this thread right now, file em on my new, oversized hard drive, then back it all up.
And I'll return with more Don Jensen, I hope (you've got me thinking about where to find photos of him), although right now I'm packing to head to Kirkwood to get in some sliding. Some of us have to commute to our snow these days (sigh...) and my kids have new skis. Not sure if I'll have connectivity up there.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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No doubt.
I just burn through memories and pictures here at a rapacious pace.
I scan old slides and photos and only resize them for use here on the forum. They are in my photo bucket. But if I want anything truly archival I'll just have to scan it all over again!
And although I've saved a few things I've written here (in Word document) most of it just sits in the giant newspaper pile that is SuperTalko™
One word of warning (*warning Will Robinson warning*)
If you're creating your contributions solely in this reply window, every now and then when you press "post this reply" you will lose everything.
It has happened enough to me that I always either work in Word document fresh, or copy what I've written in this window to a Word document before I post it.
Another problem we face, is that things are not so easy to search here. So it is in here somewhere, but where?
Cheers,
Roy
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Warning well taken. Just because I haven't lost a post yet, I sometimes feel like "the innocent, the ignorant, and the insecure..."
When I get back I get a tutorial on Photoshop and maybe a copy of the program. Not only resizing shots for here, but also squiggling red lines onto walls. Got a TR on a FA for you guys hanging since September...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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This is all great stuff - thanks! I started climbing in 1971, with a ash-shafted 1950s style ice axe which I bought at REI in Seattle. In 1972 I went on a trip to the Adamant Range with Leif Patterson and others, and was exposed there to the first version of Chouinard rigid crampons - Leif had had to get them rewelded once or twice. Plus the first Chouinard ice hammer, and the hammer-axe. The thing with a head that looked like an axe, but with a hammer handle.
Leif did a great deal of ice climbing and technical mountaineering, and so tended to be well equipped. His Chouinard ice axe is a classic.
The less said about 1970s era ice screws and such, the better. The Salewas were fine, but hell to place and remove. I can't remember how many times I carefully chipped out a tiny hole, gingerly placed the screw in it, tapped it a few times, and started cranking it in - only to have it fail to bite, or worse still blow out after a few turns. Wart hogs were at least a bit easier to get in.
And then all that fun with double leather boots, over boots, super gaiters, and so on.
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RDB
Trad climber
Iss WA
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Thanks again for such a warm welcome here Doug!
I suspect there are a lot of us in the same situation on this thread. I was very influenced by the first three Chouinard catalogs and their articles. Having a discussion and getting to read Doug's and other's posts here on ST is a real treat. I've never gone through a talus slope since without thinking about that article...and how Doug's feet survived running through them in EBs.
David Robert's early writings (and Don Jensen's actions) lead me to my first Alaska trips, to the North side of Deborah in '76 and Huntington in '78.
Hearing about Don Jensen's back ground is really fun and enlightening. I had always figured that he was from the East Coast for some reason. But coming from such a long back ground on the east side of the Sierra kinda blew me away. Huntington makes a lot more sense now even though it was years ahead for its time. As does the problems on Deborah and the choss.
That Jensen owned and used a Terro, brings a smile to my face.
Only place I knew to find them (or Helly Hensen pile) was Swallow's nest in the U District in that tiny little hole in the wall shop. What a great time to be climbing! There was a time if you climbed hard ice or alpine in the NW, good chance you either knew them or knew someone they climbed with.
Fun to again reread the different perspectives on curved and drop gear. With reverse curved tools taking over the technical ground I read somewhere that the "curved" pick was the answer to technical ice. In reality it was hooking that won that race not the angle of the picks.
For an old guy like me using the new leashless tools was a eye opener. Biggest adversion I had was using them on rock. I'd have hissy fits every time I smacked one of my piolets into rock on thin ice. Now you go looking for it and the tools actually can take it all in stride.
Only took me 20 years to get over that adversion and finally actually want to put a tool on rock! Never thought I'd ever get excited about winter climbing again. Last winter one of my old partners hauled me out for a week of water ice. Sketchy first couple of days just following. But by the end of the week I was leading comfortably again..all with less effort, more safety while being much more comfortable physically. I was dumb founded.
That a good leashless tool made climbing easier, warmer and truely just more fun was really hard to believe.
This thread just gets me even more excited about getting out again next week!
Now I just need to hunt down those Super Guides :)
Thanks GUYS!
english link
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://193.252.114.148/AUVIEUXCAMPEUR/gp/asp/sous_categories.asp%3Fcodctg%3D2287&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsup%2Bguide%2Btrad%2Bgalibier%2Bboot%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us%26sa%3DG
(edit)
Thanks for starting a great thread Steve and noting Michael Kennedy's post. Geezus, then I took a look around the forum and saw some of the guys posting here. What an amazing historical archive.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2009 - 09:45pm PT
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On another thread, Michael Kennedy posted fond memories of thawing Salewa tubes inside of his clothing in order to clear them!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2009 - 10:53pm PT
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Or crotchcicle....
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Fine reading here. Thanks to DR, Tarbuster and all
DR-
I also disagree with your early comments in this thread on Hamish McInnes’ terrordactyls. Yes, you bashed your knuckles when you used them ( I still have the scars to prove it), but when it came to vertical ice, they were superior to Chouinard tools. The key advantage was that they were easier to remove than the curved picks, and this was welcome in balancy situations. And with a practiced flick of the wrist, you learned to spare the knuckles a bit.
This is me using them on the FA of the Dru Couloir Direct in 1977, photo by Tobin.
Also, there was another reason we moved away from Chouinard picks when I was ice climbing in the seventies and it was mentioned above by Steve. We knew of several instances where Chouinard ice axes (and crampons also) had snapped while in use and this was an unnerving prospect As a result, we sometimes threw an extra ice tool in the pack, just in case.
That being said, Chouinard’s curved picks were excellent, especially on delicate ice. This is the Swiss route on Les Courtes in 1976, which was a very dry, thin year. Chouinard bamboo axe and lightweight ice hammer Photo: Mike Graham.
Also note the Rivendell pack in the last photo.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 4, 2009 - 01:10pm PT
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Great post Ricky. Would you mind fleshing out that Dru Couloir Direct experience? You may have done so already in the Stonemaster Stories. Big time route to bag!
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Steve,
I'll do that in another thread some time, so as to keep the drift reasonable.
Rick
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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I am nearly overwhelmed by all the recent information posted here. What motivates me to reply: is the incredible number of memory links I have to many of the last 25 or so postings. I have to contribute.
I bought into and eventually owned a climbing, ski, and backpacking shop in Moscow Idaho and was the local gear source and a popular climbing knowledge resource for U of Idaho and Washington State University climbers 1973-83.
I was able to meet and or climb with, through sponsoring “climbing slide shows” or attending trade shows, a fair number of the “big name climbers” of the 1970’s.
Don Jensen: In 1976 in company with recent poster Dane Burns: Gwain Oka, Chris Puchner, & I flew off to Alaska to attempt Mt. Deborah. David Roberts wrote a book about an epic failed adventure on Deborah with Don Jensen; that had helped inspire us. We were going to climb the then unclimbed North Ridge of Deborah. In our cockiness, we were able to look at reports of the 20 or so expeditions that had failed to climb a new route on Deborah since Becky and Harrer did the South Ridge in 1954, and ignore the facts.
We flew in from Talkeetna with our pilot: the legendary Cliff Hudson. He flew us over the steep avalanche-covered canyon that descends under Deborah’s North Face and looked back to say “I wouldn’t go in there if I was you boys”. After climbing 3,700 vertical scary feet up a northern spur peak to get to the start of the North Ridge of Deborah, we retreated. We did push a new very ballsy route up the north side of its neighbor Mt. Hess. From Hess, we got a close look at the dreaded East ridge of Deborah that Don Jensen did not climb. We then had a epic retreat after a storm hit us near the summit of Hess (used up a lot of luck that night). Cliff was a few days late picking us up, food was running low, and we started looking at maps and thinking about walking out. It did not look like a sane alternative. Of course, Don Jensen and David Roberts did walk into and out from the East Ridge.
At the end of the trip, at age 28: I decided I had used up most of my expeditionary luck and tried to stay on safer routes after that. (Dane did not feel unlucky, and went on many more expeditions after Deborah).
Timeline note: the North Ridge of Deborah was climbed in July 1976 and its North Face got climbed the next year-1977. I profoundly respect those very brave (and slightly insane) men!
Chris Puchner, Dane Burns, Ray (Fritz)Brooks, Gwain Oka: in front of Cliff Hudson's plane. N. side Mt. Deborah May 1978
The middle section of the North ridge of Deborah from our high point at 9,700 Ft, on the northern spur peak of Deborah, after an “interesting” day & night of snow, ice and rotten rock climbing.
The upper part of the North Ridge of Deborah.
Jensen Packs. I still have mine from Rivendell Mountain Works, Driggs, Idaho. I climbed with it from 1973 to about 1977----when I replaced it with a Lowe pack. If you packed it carefully----it carried great (even up to 55-60 lbs). Unfortunately, it took a long time to pack carefully and those with Lowe packs were escaping the negative event when I was still packing. I don’t believe the Chouinard rip-off, the Ultimate Thule was nearly as well made.
Haderer leather boots and Chouinard Supergators. The Chouinard Supergators idea was borrowed from Peter Carmen & Rivendell Mountain Works. Based on very positive cold weather experience with Supergators----I wore mine to Alaska in May 1978. I think the other 3 guys took double boots. I remember worrying, but had adequately warm feet. I broke down and bought plastic tele-boots a few year back: otherwise: leather rules.
Chouinard Crampons: I bought a pair in 1971 or 72 and climbed happily on them for years. On the 1978 Deborah trip we climbed a lot of thin crusted snow over ice. I took a lot of minor slips while front-pointing and got a little nervous about my abilities. On our return from the trip: I finally looked at how far the front points stuck out from my boot soles. It was about ˝”. I had filed them so many times that they just didn’t protrude far enough to do the job in those conditions. Bought SMC’s. They never fit great, but did the job.
John Cleare: Royal Robbins talked him into a U.S. slide show circuit in 1975? He showed up in Moscow, ID on a Friday with a terrible hangover and spent the weekend. Gave a great show, told classic British climbing stories at the mandatory drinking session afterwards, and did light rock-climbing. He came back for another session in a year or two. He was absolutely the best person I ever sponsored slide shows for. To my astonishment: he tracked me down last year, asked permission to use one of my Deborah photos in Stephen Venable’s book “Meetings with Mountains” and then sent me money for it. John!------you are a gentleman.
Hummingbirds: I was not doing a lot of waterfall climbing in the 70’s, since Moscow, Idaho did not have much nearby, but every winter we would take off to Baniff to do a drinking, skiing, waterfall-climbing week. I met Dane Burns there in 1974 while climbing the standard: Cascade Couloir. As I started climbing steeper and longer waterfall pitches, I could not figure out how to stop on near vertical ice and place protection while using Chouinard Piolet and Alpine hammer. The Hummingbird, or rather two of them solved it. I had a wrist loop from a hole I drilled through the fiberglass shaft (which was later profoundly discouraged by Lowe) and then the webbing coming out the bottom of the shaft could be clipped to my Whillans Harness. I could place both Hummingbirds solidly in waterfall ice, rest on them and my front points and place screws with my Chouinard Alpine Hammer. It felt totally safe until my sub-conscious finally screamed: “You’ve used up all your luck.” That was about 1983 and I haven’t ice climbed since.
Salewa tubes clogging: I had read an article in Mountain in 73 or 74, that the Brits would put the tubes down their shirts to thaw the ice out, but I could not really believe myself doing such a masochistic thing. In 1974 on 2nd pitch of Cascade Couloir, I could not get a clogged Salewa tube to screw in. They melted out quickly inside my shirt and I hardly minded the trickle of ice-water.
Warm, dry rock. I can keep climbing that stuff forever. Thanks, Fritz
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RDB
Trad climber
Iss WA
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Unkie Ray! Damn, it is good to hear from you!
Fun times, hu? Your pics just floored me! Deborah was our centenial year, 1976. I remember how pissed my Dad was about the collect call home on the radio phone through Fairbanks. You and Gwain the "old guys" 28? Me, 22. Chris? You made that trip possible for me and many more later..thank you.
Easy to get the dates mixed up. Took me several months in bed last spring from a ground fall just to figure out and write down what tools I'd used, when and where.
Gwain and I were both still using single boots on Deborah, custom done, zippered and insulated with pile, super gators. Gwain was in the Trappeur "Deavasoux"? I'm sure that isn't the spelling of the French alpinist that they were named for but it was the boot with covered laces. Me in "my" Haderers that came 2nd hand through Roskelly.
You were the only other guy I ever met that had a pair. Chris was in Galibier dbls.
I had scored a pair of Galibier Makalus from you but they never fit well so didn't get used much.
I think between Gwain and I, we bought 3 Jensens from you. Two Gaints and one regular. I ended up buying two more over the years. 5 out of a thousand total packs produced I read some where. Just sold my last recently on Ebay for the silly price of $340. Amazing design and very well made in comparison to what else was available.
Too many time lines on this thread...too many questions unanswered :)
Rick and Tobin's amazing season in the Alps? Love to see and hear more about that one myself.
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Lurking and love'n it ;)
That's right I had forgotten...
The original Super Gaitor was the 'Carmen Super Gaitor'
Salewa tubes inside the clothing to ease core removal, Yep !
Even the first Chouinard screws with their supposed core cut smaller than tube ID would need the treatment once in a while when it was really cold.
I remember the trick was, if there was any core left from placement then the second, if they removed the screw quickly and immediately smacked out the tube, it would clear easy from the friction created at removal. But leave it for a minute or two and it would just ice up again immediately.
Birds...
Way cool for hard ice traverses.
I always thought it was so neat the way you could place them and rotate the placement as you moved across the traverse.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 4, 2009 - 04:23pm PT
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Ricky-Yours is the sort of drift that STers are more than happy to faceplant in! This thread is a keeper. Spindrift on!
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