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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Jun 17, 2016 - 07:36am PT
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Talk about brain dead arguments. I "researched" ccw, and determined a gun wouldn't make me safer, so I am going to learn karate. Hahaha.. Oh f*#k.
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dikhed
climber
State of fugue and disbelief
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Jun 17, 2016 - 07:44am PT
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You might as well learn to catch bullets in your teeth because you just brought your beginner karate dork skills to a gunfight
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 17, 2016 - 08:13am PT
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Now, can I count on your help in preserving the ability for me to make MY choice as well rather than someone else making it for me?
It's not so simple. Do I want to preserve your ability to concealed carry? It depends on your background, why do you need it, and where can you bring it? Those are important questions. I don't think we should just give a CCW to anyone who wants one, and it should be valid everywhere (including in vehicles, schools, courthouses, etc), but I think they should be available.
There was that guy who shot a father dead because he was talking during the previews at a movie theater. I for sure think he shouldn't have been carrying.
Self defense isn't just martial arts. It's situational awareness, conflict resolution, and if need be close range disarming techniques. I would guess that most of the situations people think a CCW is going to help them isn't going to work. If someone has a gun pointed at you are you really going to quick draw and try to shoot them first? I would also guess that self defense training statistically is better at keeping you safe than carrying.
It's a matter of probabilities. I've lived half my life and never came close to needing a gun. There has been a few times, years ago, where my self defence training came in handy though.
The gun lobby has done a good job convincing about half of Americans that more guns make us more safe when in fact they make us less safe.
"Right-to-carry laws are associated with substantially higher rates" of aggravated assault, robbery, rape and murder. (Aneja, Donohue and Zhang, 2014)
"No support to the hypothesis that shall-issue laws have beneficial effects in reducing murder rates" (Grambsch, 2012)
At the city level, there is "no evidence that [right-to-carry] laws reduce or increase rates of violent crime" (Kovandzic, Marvell and Vieraitis, 2005)
"A 'shall issue' law that eliminates most restrictions on carrying a concealed weapon may be associated with increased firearm homicide rates" (Rosengart et. al., 2005)
"Changes in gun ownership are significantly positively related to changes in the homicide rate" (Ludwig, 2002)
So again I'm not opposed to CCW, but when in fact it likely increases violence we need to really think about it and who, when, and why it's allowed.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 17, 2016 - 08:25am PT
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But wait, your choice to decide how to defend yourself is yours and your's alone. You've made yours and I applaud you for educating yourself and deciding as you see fit.
I'm not advocating to dictate anything about your choice, why do you feel the need (or claim the right) to tell me how I should make that choice either?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 17, 2016 - 08:31am PT
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I've lived half my life and never came close to needing a gun.
I've lived my whole life without needing to use fire insurance.
Non sequiturs are fun!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 17, 2016 - 08:41am PT
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I'm not claiming I want to make your choice, I'm saying we have the right and responsibility to make sure people who carry are thoroughly vetted.
Again there's no easy answer. I believe in the right to bear arms, but I also believe in sensible limits and taking statistics that show what's happening in the real world into account, to actually make us safer, not just fulfill people's emotional needs or perceptions of what is safer.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 17, 2016 - 08:50am PT
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Well since it seems some want to misconstrue statements here and not think critically, I'll join in too.
Yes, let's give everyone who wants to concealed carry the right to do so wherever they want. No background checks. No good reasons. No training. Let's make holsters that attach to our steering wheels so road rage incidents can easily escalate into homicides. Yes everyone should have the right to carry wherever then want, that will surely make us all feel safer. Just like the old west. Who's the fastest draw? They are the ones who deserve to live. BTW I have a shooting range on my property, can draw pretty fast, and I'm a decent shot, so I'm good.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 17, 2016 - 09:45am PT
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Fet,
You do realize that there are places in this country that exist exactly as your "radical" example?
Can you explain to me why people aren't dying daily in shootouts and road rage?
The facts of the matter are that the places that have more restrictions actually see more of these killings (esp if taking into context Ksolem's comments) or at a minimum it has no appreciable difference.
So, as it has been stated so many times, restrictions generally do nothing more than effect law abiding citizens and have no appreciable impact on the incidence of violence.
So, why not look somewhere else for the solution?
EDIT: And yet in the UK, home to some of the most draconian gun laws on the planet, even their parliament members are not safe from gunfire (I refer you to Fear's list of three options)
Good god even Howard Stern has figured it out, but then again, as an ethnic group in general, Jews understand this better than most.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 17, 2016 - 12:57pm PT
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"Changes in gun ownership are significantly positively related to changes in the homicide rate" (Ludwig, 2002)
I haven't a clue who Ludwig is, his statement can mean a few different things due to his odd use of language. But if he is saying what I think he is, I wonder how he would explain the graphs I put up, approx. post #114. They are from the FBI.
Since the mid 1990's the number of new guns in the US has tripled, at the same time the number of gun homicides has fallen by between 1/2 and 2/3rds.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 17, 2016 - 01:03pm PT
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On a positive note, I have heard that the Pink Pistols have doubled in membership since the Orlando shooting. Not sure how confirm but is a positive rumor if nothing else.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Jun 17, 2016 - 01:37pm PT
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http://www.armoryairbrush.com/
My buddy will do your pistol pink for you in long-lasting DuraCoat. Those are my weapons on his site by the way. Go ahead and sling away I can take it
Hey her rifle is down there
vvvvvv Says the guy with truck nuts. Not my rifle, big guy. What's a d#@&%e nozzle?
We actually agree on a lot of things except for constant shitposting
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 17, 2016 - 01:47pm PT
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Why does that not surprise me. I bet your truck has a d#@&%enozzle on it as well.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 17, 2016 - 01:57pm PT
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@ Craig Fry
We want extensive back ground checks.
The system for this is already in place. If a background check is submitted by a dealer it goes through three Federal databases: FBI, DHS, NCIC. There are some leaks in this system which need to be fixed. Not all states, for example, apply the background check to purchases at gun shows. Of those that do, some do not require it for personal sales, so if you make your deal at the show you can make the transaction later as a personal sale. Some states do not require the check at all. They need to be persuaded otherwise.
So I have no problem with background checks so long as they are strictly limited by law as to what can be checked. Also, a person who fails their check must have recourse to find out why. As we know these databases are full of incorrect entries, so here must be a process which at least resembles due process.
Limited access to military style weapons
Style is the operative word. For example AR-15 is a pretty standard single shot semi-automatic rifle in a costume. It is made to look like an M-16 type of military weapon but it is not. The feature which distinguishes it from most semi-auto rifles used for hunting etc. is the quickly changeable detachable magazine. The continued legality of such magazines capable of more than 10 rounds is a centerpiece of the current debate on gun control.
Limited ammo capacity
I don’t know what you think that number should be so I’ll go on about home defense for a minute. Largely there are two types of people who break into homes. The one’s who try their best to do it when you’re not there. But say you are sleeping in the back, you wake up from their noise, get your gun and confront them. Now, unless one of them confronts you in a threatening way with a weapon you cannot shoot them. You will be in more trouble than the burglars.
The others are the ones who come in when they know you are home. They will be armed and ruthless, and you are instantly in a self-defense situation. They want to put a gun to your head and make you open the safe and give them any other valuables you might have round the house. In many cases they finish the job by killing the inhabitants, either because they don’t want to be identified or because their gang decided for them. This situation is not fiction. We’ve been here in Monrovia for about ten years and I recall at least four of these here or in our neighboring town, Arcadia. On one occasion an entire family was murdered.
So if I find myself in that situation how many rounds can I have?
No Fly, no buy
The NRA supports no guns if you are on a terrorist watch list. But the no fly list is a joke, and once you are on it there is no due process method to get off it unless you happen to be Sen. Ted. Yes Ted Kennedy found himself on the no fly list.
To get the support of gun owners for no fly no buy, the way in which the list is created and a due process method to get off it are mandatory. Otherwise citizens are being deprived of a constitutional right without due process.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Jun 17, 2016 - 02:01pm PT
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I totally agree he is pandering to women in order to increase his business but he does an awesome job and DuraCoat is amazing
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 17, 2016 - 02:01pm PT
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Well since it seems some want to misconstrue statements here and not think critically, I'll join in too. Dude, that's all Escopeta can do. Evade, change the subject, ad hominen argument. That's his whole spiel. Little to be gained from arguing with the guy, unless you actually like reading bullsh#t.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 17, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
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Dude, that's all Escopeta can do. Evade, change the subject, ad hominen argument. That's his whole spiel. Little to be gained from arguing with the guy, unless you actually like reading bullsh#t
It warms my heart when hypocritical people do the very thing they accuse others of doing.
What's the matter fat boy, you can't refute any of the statements either? Don't worry, you're in good company.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Jun 17, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
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No magazine restrictions here. Yes that is my PSS
I haven't purchased firearms since moving here so not sure about high cap mag availability. I am sure at the gunshows
vvvvvv He is also a gunsmith and head electrician at San Manuel Amphitheater in San Bernardino
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jun 17, 2016 - 03:49pm PT
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What folks will do for a job.
(it's not first and foremost the fault of H sapiens but nature)
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Karkoekstan
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 17, 2016 - 09:10pm PT
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You're just gonna have to get used to the slaughter, boys. That's all there is to it.
DMT
is that why you love Stockton ?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 18, 2016 - 05:44am PT
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In Kali if I remember correctly they put restrictions on spray paint purchases. Don't you have to be over 18 and also give them you drivers license if you want to buy a can of spray paint?
And yet, horror of horrors we have a thread on ST about tagging and how its the scourge of the outdoors.
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