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Crazy Bat
Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
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Jul 27, 2015 - 10:16pm PT
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When I first joined this forum it was full of the necked female form. One post from Cmac and the members began to behave. To any advertisers following this thread I have to say that the level of hate on hate has also dropped since I joined in 2010. I just ignore those posts I don't agree with and scroll on down.
Rock climbing is just one of my interests, I also cave, canoe, backpack and hunt.
Fellow posters, keep in mind this is probably one thread that the advertisers are looking at.
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Fish Finder
climber
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Jul 27, 2015 - 10:19pm PT
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Very Simple
Freedom of speech can sometimes be about better
Letter writing
Ignore and forget the Sponsors that pay any attention
To one d#@&%e bag
Don't Flinch as the last thing you want are copycats
Dear Sponsors
We are sorry that you were contacted by a delusional individual
That does not represent our core members who purchase your products
Although we try to uphold great standards on our forum
We do respect that all have the same right to freedom of speech
Bla bla bla
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Fish Finder
climber
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Jul 27, 2015 - 10:57pm PT
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So many whiners
So little time
Being attacked on a forum is just words
Is no different than getting hit with spit balls
In grammar school
Grow up and get thicker skin
How is it that so many need so much attention
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Fish Finder
climber
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Jul 27, 2015 - 11:25pm PT
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My contributions are that I am here
Edit:You can't hold back or censor Freedom of Speech
We all are who we are and say what we want to say
Words are not swords they are words
If they cut
Your just reading them wrong
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Fish Finder
climber
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Jul 27, 2015 - 11:42pm PT
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Meaningful is so subjective
In so many circles
Don't get all bruised patten yourself
on your back
I'm happy that you contribute anyway that you do
I'm sorry the admin won't give you the attention you deserve
For me I'll just do what I do here
Regardless if it fits into anyone else's expectations
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
Shitalkqua, WA
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Jul 27, 2015 - 11:43pm PT
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jul 27, 2015 - 11:52pm PT
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Folks, there is NO First Amendment issue:
Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
It refers ONLY to action by the Gov't, not to private citizens. We all can restrict speech as much as we want.
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T.J.
climber
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Jul 27, 2015 - 11:58pm PT
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Well sheesh,
To the person "Mark", I have been visiting this site for many years. I enjoy it. It gives me a community of like minded "friends" whom I can interact with. For me, I'm a new dad which means I'm in semi-limited, temporary, space I have to work through as my kids get out of their early phase. I enjoy the TR's that give me the light to keep trying!!! Thanks everyone! I have found a place where I have lost amazing friends and can share stories with people that my friends knew but I I have never met. I am inspired by the positive minds here that keep me digging deep for anything that is truly worth pursuing. OT's, well they are just amusing and I participate despite the lack of "voice" that works better in person but whatever.
Chris,
I want my avatar "skywalker" back but I changed something and I don't know why it kicked me off.
Cheers!!!!
S....
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Fish Finder
climber
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Jul 28, 2015 - 12:00am PT
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Hi Patrick
Nice to meet you
You had mentioned a "wall of silence"
We all have so many minutes in a day
I'm guessing there aren't enough minutes
In the admins day to address all the squabbles
That go on here
This is all what YOU make of it
It's a fun informative collective
There are way more Asshats here
Than I can handle
But you weed them out and hold close the things you feel true to
Edit: Best,Gregg Pusateri
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Fish Finder
climber
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Jul 28, 2015 - 12:24am PT
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Casual and indirect
OK I am clueless
I know nothing about you or your issues here
I hope you can work that out
No one can follow your path here
Not me not C to the Mac
Just You
Chris is more of a Baliff
Trying to maintain order in the courtroom
Without saying anything
But please step inside and wait
as there is no Judge
Edit: so that is my point
Chris shouldn't have to drop anything for anybody
Where is the entitlement coming from?
Because you post meaningful content here for others to enjoy?
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Jul 28, 2015 - 12:28am PT
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This is an interesting dilemma for advertisers and companies that offer advertising space: how to stay out of personal vendettas? Advertisers can take the easy way out and walk away from anything that hints at controversy; but then they kill the businesses that bring them eyeballs and ultimately sales, and earn the resentment of many if not most of those viewers! From the forum admin's side, they can appease the manipulative minority viewpoint, destroy the environment that encourages most of their viewers to come, and then lose advertisers because they can't generate eyeballs!
For me, the litmus test of an advertiser should be this: does the forum have a reinforcing effect where hateful speech is encouraged and ultimately flourishes because there is a critical mass of participants who stoke the continued generation of hateful speech? Or is there a small group of ignorami that are present everywhere (that would be my tongue and cheek plural of ignoramuses) who are recognized as such and generally opposed or disregarded by other forum members? I've been hanging out at this site for 10 years, and I think the site is pretty clearly in the latter category.
The forum administrators have occasionally spoken out against or banned members that were unrepentant and repugnant in their expressed views, but they have skillfully balanced this with a very light degree of intervention that fosters the diversity of community that most if not all of the participants value. Viewers are always welcome to walk away. I don't think any sane person can claim this site creates more hatred in the world than it combats. There is no favoritism for discriminating or expressing disagreement with any specific group. All topics are open. If anything, the puffed up arguments that happen here are an outlet for negative energy that some participants need to be more positive in their face-to-face daily life.
One of the problems with imposing strict limits on what people talk about is that it takes away the ability to discuss uncomfortable or politically incorrect issues, and leads to a dystopian thought-police type society where we can't explore ideas any more and are forced to accept the viewpoint of the current administration. It can lead to less understanding and less acceptance of diversity. Sometimes those vocal ignoramuses say things that are just repugnant to just about everyone. But sometimes they say things out loud that are not as extreme, that are things many others are thinking but would be too embarrassed to say out loud for fear of being judged politically incorrect. The airing of these ideas, and the opposition from the rest of the group, and the exchange of ideas, can disinfect the minds of people who otherwise would hold onto their poorly conceived negative ideas with no public airing to give opportunity to change them.
So advertisers: if you want me to associate you with Big Brother Dystopian World and stop buying your products, go ahead and cave into the manipulations of Mark Winans. I have never communicated with the guy, and I have no idea who he is or what he wants. I have no problems with Latino folks, and no problems with Muslim individuals or Christian individuals. I am not fond of organized religion in general, especially because of the history of violence associated with many of them, but I don't think that makes me into a promulgator of hate speech, or intolerant of the existence of religious groups. Maybe if you are selling plastic Jesus statues I ruled myself out as a target customer ;) But otherwise, consider me an average Joe that comes here BECAUSE of the diversity, and withdrawing your advertising is a statement that you don't support what I want.
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drunkenmaster
Social climber
santa rosa
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Jul 28, 2015 - 01:06am PT
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Mr Winan is wrong when it says: "I would like you to know that you are advertising on a website whose members promote violence against other Americans. The level of hatred expressed on this site against Latinos and Muslims specifically is absolutely unacceptable in the United States of America. Specifically, I am talking about www.supertopo.com and its forum."
It should have said "I am talking about the SuperTopo forum." == only the SuperTopo forum is what is in question here because I am part of SuperTopo and we first and foremost make guidebooks. I am a SuperTopo author and also a proud member of a Latino family and good friend of many Muslims as I am sure a lot of other SuperTopo users are. I do not at all agree with "Mr Whinar". It seems very sad and I feel needs to be ignored now because It is obviously delusional about who is at fault - this is America and this is a FREE FORUM with FREEDOM OF SPEECH so if It does not like the open dialogue then please LEAVE :) It seems that only one or maybe a couple of our members at most said anything to fire It up and that is in no way a representation of our overall attitude. So to try to persecute the many for the actions of a few that It does not agree with is not what FREEDOM is about so maybe It should question It's own FREEDOM or lack thereof.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jul 28, 2015 - 03:47am PT
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Reality sells.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Jul 28, 2015 - 07:01am PT
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This Low-T thing is nothing to joke about. I was just explaining to a group of climbers at the Warming Wall, how my level dropped substantially after 40, and I am only good for 2 or 3 times a day now.
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little Z
Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
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Jul 28, 2015 - 07:05am PT
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Well said Nut, well said. Wish I had your eloquence.
If advertisers can't see that this is nothing but a personal vendetta, then go ahead and bail and look for somewhere else to pander to the weak minded.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 28, 2015 - 07:33am PT
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A tempestuous teapot, indeed.
Also, at times, the ST Forum is a dirty, shyte-stinkin', lime-encrusted toilet bowl swirling away for hours to no avail.
QED.
MFM
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 28, 2015 - 07:50am PT
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Quedando atrás en su comprhension de por qué este tema está generando mucho interés en el foro?
Podemos ayudar.
Advertising, of thee I sing.
God loves you, CMac. It's not too much, just enough, no matter what.
Good job.
Final words on the subject.
Adios, muchachos.
See you at Facelift, Fish Finder, aka "Greg P."
I hope to make it and I'm gonna bring some custom-made sausage for breakfasts, I hope.
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Lurkingtard
climber
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Jul 28, 2015 - 08:40am PT
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Less whining, more climbing.
You're welcome.
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