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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Additionally, why don't the states use the "big shot of heroin" approach? I have the feeling it's not as straightfoward as it may seem.
That's your feeling and you may be right, but my feeling is that it really is just gross incompetence on the part of those applying the DP.
As noted above, millions of animals are euthanized each year. I'm sure there is some failure rate, but in general we expect that the animals will be euthanzied relatively quickly, painlessly, and inexpensively. I've never heard that's not what happens, in general if not in every case.
Another way to look at it: almost all of us of at least a certain age have been put under general anesthesia. Once under, we could be killed by whatever ridiculous means one may imagine, and we wouldn't feel a thing. How freaking hard is it to put someone under with anesthesia, especially when you know you can go heavy on the dose as you're not really concerned about the possibility of them not waking up?
Jstan--thanks for pointing out that jawing on ST may not be an effective means of policy change. I had no idea--I thought that major American policy makers monitored this site in real time and carefully considered the points being raised here. I suppose ST isn't like conversations "in real life", where expressing an opinion on current events inexorably leads to direct action being taken by the relevant decision makers, or, at the very least, convinces everyone within earshot of the correctness or our opinions.
Go ahead and take a vow of silence if you'd like--we'll carry on without you.
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North
climber
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Just curious on why they (presumably the executioner?) clean the injection site? Hmmm.....
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Don't ask inconvenient questions!
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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High Traverse,
Yep, still here. Interesting to hear ST'ers comments on this age old debate.
As far as your quote "as you sow, so shall you reap" it's in Galations 6:7 and actually refers to heaven.
"Don't be misled; remember that you can't ignore God and get away with it: a man will always reap just the kind of crop he sows. If he sows to please his own wrong desires, he will be planting seeds of evil and he will surely reap a harvest of spiritual decay and death; but if he plants the good things of the Spirit, he will reap the everlasting life which the Spirit gives him."
and my favorite part......"and let us not get tired of doing what is right, for after a while we will reap a harvest of blessing if we don't get discouraged and give up."
Has anyone here read the book, The Shack? Very well written intriguing book where a man's young daughter is kidnapped while they are camping. I recommend it.....very different, makes you think. Ties in a bit with the theme of this thread.
Cheers, lynne
Edit: I appreciate the fact we can express ourselves here on ST. I know many don't believe there is a God here on the Taco, but He works for me. Thanks for allowing me to express my opinions. :)
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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and let us not get tired of doing what is right, for after a while we will reap a harvest of blessing if we don't get discouraged and give up I like the King James version, modern.
6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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I do too, High Traverse. I can be an Eeoyre at times and this encourages me when I am discouraged.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2014 - 04:54pm PT
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to a mob....
Whew, for a second there I thought you were talking about the Mafia. They apparently have developed their own set of procedures. Anybody know someone in the club who could be asked whether they consider their approach humane?
There may be some exceptions to the guillotine stats presented above. This guy's neck reportedly broke three blades.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Use in executions[edit]
In 2009, Ohio approved the use of an intramuscular injection of hydromorphone and midazolam as a backup means of carrying out executions when a suitable vein cannot be found for intravenous injection.[16]
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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The Norwegian Nutjob only got 21 years ( the max.) with a minimum of 10 years. He will never be released and they aren't going to appeal. Done, done and done.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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You mean if he serves his whole sentence of 21 years, he still won't get out? WTF?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Chaz...those 21 are in dog years...
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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his whole sentence of 21 years, he still won't get out? WTF? the possibility of an extension of that incarceration for as long as he is deemed a danger to society.
In other words, in his case, almost certainly a life sentence.
That's the Norwegian law. I quoted it a page ago.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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They will 'contain' him as a risk to society. It is efficient policy.
I think that pro-capital punishment people misunderstand people like me who are mostly against it. I'd have no problem whacking the guy, I might even lead the lynch mob. But......as public policy, I believe that a contained prisoner is not a threat to society and I don't want the government in the killing business. Also, the courts and the lawyers suck a fat turd and they're incapable of providing that level of justice. They're going to keep getting it wrong.
Some men, you just can't reach.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Some men spend the rest of they nights in the box
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I have often wondered how avowed Christians are able to "get past" the Commandments:
During his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus explicitly referenced the prohibitions against murder and adultery. In Matthew 19:16-19 Jesus repeated five of the Ten Commandments, followed by that commandment called "the second" (Matthew 22:34-40) after the first and great commandment.
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
—Matthew 19:16-19
In his epistle to the Romans, Paul the apostle also mentioned five of the Ten Commandments and associated them with the neighbourly love commandment.
Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
—Romans 13:8-10 KJV
Jesus acknowledged their validity and instructed his disciples to go further, demanding a righteousness exceeding that of the scribes and Pharisees
Is that the game, "getting past" the word of God?
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Death penalty is not very effective.
The evil purp just picks up a new body somewhere and blends back into society.
Life in prison is the ticket. And no tv and other "humane" crap. Just sit there. Maybe break rocks or something. Food: scraps. and minimal.
Death penalty is also very bad for the people who have to do it. Messes up the head a bit. (maybe already that way)
Categories for maximum penalty:
A. Life in prison - no paraole as above.
B. Death penalty would be a mercy sentance; eg. kill spouse or others in a moment of passion, thus ruining own life. A chance to start over.
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John M
climber
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Ken, Modern Christians say that the commandment says.. thou shalt not murder. They get around it by saying that executing a prisoner is not murder. I have a harder time with the ones who want revenge.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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The guy in question kidnapped and raped a girl, shot her twice - non fatally with a shotgun - then buried her alive. I'm not able to comprehend whatever sentiments a guy like that could have.
This is a great and fundamental question, and is at the heart of my previous post.
The sentiment of the perp is that the girl is not human, and exists only to fulfill the perps desires.
This is EXACTLY the dehumanization process that goes on for soldiers going to war, with respect to the other side. There is a comprehensive process of dehumanization and demonization of the enemy. You see it in the terminology of the description of the enemy.
The problem is that we do exactly the same thing when we start to think of the perp as not human. They most certainly are. The damage in thinking that way is not to the perp, it is to us....because it is easy to start to apply those descriptions against people of much less offense. In fact, it is likely exactly how the perp came to be as he was.
When he thought of putting a person through a meat grinder, he was just like those who posted that here....except he carried that out (metaphorically). And then we wonder where he got that idea.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Is There a Humane Way to Kill?
 Head-shot!
I've seen some hunting videos lately that clearly show this is the answer...
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Just curious on why they (presumably the executioner?) clean the injection site? Hmmm.....
Among other things, it makes it easier to see the anatomical landmarks that help one get the needle into the vein.
By the way, I'm not sure that all appreciate that was what went wrong....the IV slipped out of the vein, so the drugs were not delivered into the bloodstream.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2014 - 10:49pm PT
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Death penalty is not very effective.
The evil purp just picks up a new body somewhere and blends back into society.
If the guillotine is used and the neck is not outrageously expanded the death penalty is very effective. Once the perp is divorced head/bodywise how does he/she pick up a new body or conversely a new head?
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