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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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... like punishing arms sellers for actions committed out of thier hands
When the research is done it has been shown that there are bad actors among the arms dealers who are doing the majority of illegal gun sales and they are known both by the police and by criminal elements. These dealers are rarely shut down and when they are they usual pop right back up in another guise.
Wash. Post / Realco guns tied to 2,500 crimes in D.C. and Maryland
That just took me five seconds to find on google after remembering the article from 2010 as striking at the time. Virginia and a few other states are hotbeds of this kind of activity and it's due to entirely to republican state legislatures.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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"...no auto or semi-automatics..."
Norton writes:
"as a Concealed Carry gun owner, I don't see any problems with the above suggestions"
Norton continues:
"I carry a polymer framed KahrCW9..."
So you're OK with disarming yourself?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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So you're OK with disarming yourself?
nope
lots of nice little concealed carry revolvers out there
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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healyje's crushing it on this thread with detailed, reasoned posts. kudos
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Ron
there are many in this country that agree with you on this
you mention DIVERSITY, something which weve ALWAYS had here. Yet no mention of the MELTING pot. People came here to be american once upon a time. They were PROUD to fly the flag, and happy to have the opportunities this country gave them. Now we have DIVDED communites of those who have come here NOT to be american, but to change america to thier country. That is the driving force behind LARGE SCALE organizations like laraza. We now see high schoolers flying foreign flags on their school flag poles as if to indicate the loss of America, while students wearing USA flag shits are suspended from public schools on a made up holiday. Diversity you say? Why would peoples from foreing lands insist on grouping together? Why wouldnt they want to learn the launguage considered to be the norm here? Ive NEVER moved to any area based on the populas, yet we now have this in every state in the union. Where has the melting pot theory gone? and WHY has it dissapeared?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Chaz: Southern Poverty Law Center is one of those sources that definitely needs double-checking
The SPLC is fairly scrupulous in their work - if you are looking for sources in desperate need of double-checking then you'd be better off scrutinizing the neocons' last refuge - the David Horowitz Freedom Center / http://frontpagemag.com
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2012 - 02:11pm PT
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"healyje's crushing it on this thread with detailed, reasoned posts. kudos"
And no response from Cragman, whatsoever.
Meh, indeed.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
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ST 'debate' is what it is...and if you can't accept it for that, it's probably not the best place to hang out. Usually, the thin-skinned weed themselves out, or go so far over the edge they get the boot.
That said, the general tone of ST 'debate' has improved in the last 6 months. IMO.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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you mention DIVERSITY, something which weve ALWAYS had here. Yet no mention of the MELTING pot. People came here to be american once upon a time. They were PROUD to fly the flag, and happy to have the opportunities this country gave them. Now we have DIVDED communites of those who have come here NOT to be american, but to change america to thier country. That is the driving force behind LARGE SCALE organizations like laraza. We now see high schoolers flying foreign flags on their school flag poles as if to indicate the loss of America, while students wearing USA flag shits are suspended from public schools on a made up holiday. Diversity you say? Why would peoples from foreing lands insist on grouping together? Why wouldnt they want to learn the launguage considered to be the norm here? Ive NEVER moved to any area based on the populas, yet we now have this in every state in the union. Where has the melting pot theory gone? and WHY has it dissapeared?
This is almost verbatim what was said about Chinese, Irish and Italian immigrants in the 1800's and Latino and Vietnamese immigrants more recently. The Irish immigration was very well organized and "large scale" 'Emerald Societies' literally took over most large police and fire departments on the east coast. Your post is the very essence of the the xenophobia hustled by Hamilton and Rove and I consider this exactly the sort of Pavlovian / Skinner response that made Hamilton and Rove so wildly successful. Before them no one realized the programmatic 'victimization' of middle-age, white males was this easy or that they were this prone to social hysteria.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Post this morning in the papers:
This was NOT a random shooting. This was a white supremacist, targeting what he thought were mongrels.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Especially in the past two weeks....
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Healyje said: "Before them no one realized the programmatic 'victimization' of middle-age, white males was this easy or that they were this prone to social hysteria. "
You're kidding?! William Randolph Hearst got rich playing that fiddle before most of us were born.
Strange we don't hear a word about this Mosque being burnt for the 2nd time. Could it be that Muslim intolerance towards gays doesn't get the libs all exited about their freedom of speech or equal rights from folks like Apologee or Norton? Hmmm.
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/second_fire_in_five_weeks_burns_missouri_mosque.php
Maybe Werner nailed it on the 2nd post when he said:
"It's already on the front page of all the news, apogee, you moron. You're a gun drama queen nut case ...... "
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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This incident is probably not a great argument for gun control. Assuming the link to white supremacist orgs is correct, this guy was already hooked up with the bad guys. Meaning even if he was disallowed by being a felon, chances are he had connections to get the weapons he wanted.
A different argument could be made that we spend too much time worrying about Islamic terrorists and not enough about these idiots, but that's a different story.
The Aurora situation seems to be a better argument for some reasonable restrictions. Maybe if it had been a little more difficult for that guy to get some of the weapons and body armor he got, the death toll would have been a little lower, since he was more of the random deranged citizen type.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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No, you are simply being played as a sucker by the people you vote for. It's their policies and priorities which are responsible for what happens in front of your shop.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Strange we don't hear a word about this Mosque being burnt for the 2nd time. Could it be that Muslim intolerance towards gays doesn't get the libs all exited about their freedom of speech or equal rights from folks like Apologee or Norton? Hmmm.
Well, Couchmaster, this is the first of heard of the Mosque burning second time.
So, how could I "get excited" about something I was not aware of?
Muslims in this country, just like fundamentalist Christians or anyone else, have their intolerance of gays speech protected by our Constitution, you did know that, right?
Oh, by the way, I am a registered Republican.
Much more likely, the Mosque burner's mind set was much the same as the Wisconsin Sikh hater with "skin head" ties.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Voting?
Now isn't that a quaint old activity. I'll still write in RP for the Hell of it.
Other than that does anyone truly think anymore that the current voting system allows for anything more than the changing of a puppet skin?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Ron, if I lived in the sh#t hole you describe as your home area, I would move out of there.
Much be awful to be surrounded with gun wielding Mexican gangs and a local Sheriff you say can't/won't do anything about it by going after them BEFORE they commit crimes.
What a horrible place to live, feel sorry for you, Ron.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2012 - 02:56pm PT
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Any and every time suggestions are floated related to gun control, we see a response like this from the gun-nutz:
"NONE of those suggestions would have stopped the CO shooting(not sure about the Sikh shooting) and there was nothing in that list on how to deal with the 300 million currently owned firearms.
Registration, tracking, etc do nothing but solve the crime after the fact."
They shoot down every suggestion out of hand, and if pressed as to why, usually reply with a 'slippery slope' argument. Bottom line is that you gun-nutz are happy just the way it is, don't want to see any change (except maybe no weapon restrictions), and write off these episodes as 'the price of freedom'.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apogee,
That's because every suggestion so far ( with the exception of mandatory hard time for gun crimes ) will do nothing but inconvenience a bunch of people who have never done anything wrong in their lives while at the same time doing absolutely nothing at all to keep sh#t like this from happening.
One of the rules of shooting is "be sure of your target". If you're aiming for criminals - but hitting innocents - you gotta stop shooting.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2012 - 03:12pm PT
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"mandatory hard time for gun crimes "
Yeah, you guys are all about strict sentencing (for gun-related crimes, I'm good with that, too), but you'll turn back every effort to pay for it.
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