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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Mar 14, 2012 - 03:47pm PT
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had never thought of that john wayne scene as one where he was intervening in a domestic dispute, but i appreciate you bringing out the homoerotic subtext.
one of the messed up deals with real life domestics is that the rescuee is likely to just turn around and stab the rescuer with a fork.
and while i understand the impulse behind the op for the thread, if it continues rehashing bad public behavior from the eighties and nineties, we're going to depopulate this site awfully quick.
although, i guess that might be one argument in its favor
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
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I thought the duke's action in that clip was pretty cathartic. Man, a bat straight across the nose!
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Mar 14, 2012 - 04:10pm PT
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We installed two-way mirrors in his pad in Brentwood and he came to the door in a dress..."
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cintune
climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
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Mar 14, 2012 - 04:15pm PT
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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. … Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. - MLK
Then again, there's something to be said for a Duke-style righteous intervention. Unfortunately life is rarely as tidy as a screenplay.
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Grampa
Trad climber
OC in So Cal
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Mar 14, 2012 - 04:28pm PT
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Last summer, on a quiet Sunday afternoon, my whole family watched a drug-crazed teen guy smash in the neighbors door, go upstairs and attach another teen. Fortunately, the aggressor had no fighting skills and he quickly retreated to the front lawn, where the screaming and cussing began. His druggied buddy was there to help him cuss at the other people while my wife called the cops.
The interesting thing to me was the amazing state of agitation and aggression these guys were displaying. Being an old student of the martial arts, one of the most fearful opponents is one high on stimulant drugs. You can typically stop a sober person with one or two good strikes, a drunk can be stopped easily with one strike, but a person high on stimulants must be physically hurt to be stopped.
The trial is March 26 and I have been called to testify. Sheet.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Mar 14, 2012 - 04:58pm PT
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"Public displays beget more public displays!" That's pretty much my feeling on the subject. He reaps what he sows. Sr. has pissed off and alienated a lot of climbers over the years.
I find the turn of this thread interesting. The whole male hero strong man out to save the weak vulnerable woman thing is just as weird to me as the abusive male stories. I don't see the behavior as being all that different other than the acceptable boundaries. In both cases, you have someone who can't connect in an open and vulnerable way, on the same level as their partner.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Mar 14, 2012 - 05:17pm PT
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one of the messed up deals with real life domestics is that the rescuee is likely to just turn around and stab the rescuer with a fork.
Was living in a European guest house in the Tenderloin of SF in the early 80's when a woman was screaming bloody murder and yelling "Police! Police!" repeatedly. One of the residents ran out to help and was immediately stabbed in the heart by her pimp, and died instantly. When the police arrived moments later the woman insisted that the guy attacked her "man" for no reason and that he was defending himself....
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Mar 14, 2012 - 05:22pm PT
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^ Part of the reason these victims of relationship will defend their abuser in public is the instinctual fear of what the retaliation for their trouble-making will be. There's no easy answer in this one.
It is a shame that we humans can be so damned messed up. Not sure why this is.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 06:07pm PT
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Man, good luck grampa!!
Cute strawman JLP. Did you make him yourself? You must be so proud!
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad surfing the galactic plane
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Mar 14, 2012 - 06:20pm PT
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I recall seeing Tom, Else, & Chris Lindner many times out at Woodson during the 80's. Perhaps things changed later on, but they were always very well composed family unit and a pleasure to be around. I consider these negitive encounters/postings here as the rare occasions rather then the norm!
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Mar 14, 2012 - 06:39pm PT
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Cute strawman JLP. Did you make him yourself? You must be so proud! Next time go kick the guy's ass and let us know how it all worked out for you.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Mar 14, 2012 - 06:46pm PT
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JLP- I'm 52 and speak from the experience of having been a wife in an abusive situation in my thirties. While I'll take 50% of the blame for the crap that happened, it sure is interesting to me that now in a functional marriage there is NONE of that. Sorry to hear that.
I have to say though, my bad relationships were all stepping stones to the better ones. I was not ready for the relationship I have now 10 years before it happened. I don't even think there would have been a connection.
The "take 50% of the blame" part of your comment is the key to moving forward, IMO. For both.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 08:17pm PT
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Hmm, I thought I knew who that guy was in my first post, but maybe it was you, JLP? on a stepping stone to a better relationship? Or perhaps, an aspiring protoge' of your's?
Anyway, thanks for sharing your view from the 'other side', good to get the yin along with the yang!
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Mar 14, 2012 - 08:48pm PT
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I have gotten the impression that you're single, and have been for most of your life. Correct?
Married, going on 13 yrs myself. It's a pretty quiet house. I need the energy for other things, to sum up my own views on the matters in this thread.
EDIT: Jim - how about you? Married? How long?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 08:52pm PT
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Bzzt! Wrong!
Single now, but was in a relationship for 24yrs, married for 18
but thanks for playing!
Give it up slim!
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad surfing the galactic plane
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Mar 14, 2012 - 08:55pm PT
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In regards to sociopaths, I have some personal experience, startiing rather young & more recently in the pre-med & psych field and postgrad working in locked and out patient psych. Although you won't or will rarely find sociopaths seeking treatment in that...you sometimes do see their victims
From the ages of 9-13 i lived next door to this kid who was about a year or two older than myself. We had both developed an interest in archery at an early age, and by the time we met were both fairly good at it. One day, while were were at the beach(his grandmas place)we were out with our bows and arrows seeing how close we could zero in on various targets(trashcans, fire rings, cans, etc.)by shooting straight up into the sky as far as the power of the bow could traject the arrow and having it come down on the target.
We had done this allot, and the closer the object, the easier it would be. For instance we could very easily pull the arrow/bow all the way back and have the arrow shoot up almost out of sight and then return and stick into the ground a few feet in front of us over and over again and be able to reach out and pluck the arrow out of the ground without moving our feet. It became more difficult the further away and the smaller the target. Just one of our archery pastimes when we were out looking for targets(telephone poles, boxes, etc.).
So this one day we are at the beach, with no one else around. And we were doing just that, shooting the arrows up and seeing who could nail or get closest to the target(inside a trashcan down the beach). I went first and shot all my arrows, each one narrowing in on the subject tell I hit it. Then Steve went. I had laid myself down almost directly in front of him and was gazing out towards the ocean, but had him in my peripheral vision. As he pulled back and drew on the last arrow, out of the corner of my eye I caught a very chilling thing. The expression on his face suddenly changed, and he tilted his aim to almost directly over head and shot. My first thought was, "No he couldn't have." but I new what I saw and didn't have to calculate where the arrow would fall, so I rolled over one complete barrel roll. The arrow stuck exactly where I was laying. Our arrows had broadheads on them, hunting-tips. I had considered him a friend up until that point. I remember giving him a look of disbelief, a look of "How could you..." With a smurk, he just simply shrugged his shoulders and went and fetched his arrows.
I was about 10-11 by then, and us being neighbors our mothers were always pairing us up to go somewhere or do something, but I was always very wary of him thereafter. Although I had had my suspicions, caught glimpses of a troubled youth before that morning, he had crossed the line and he new that I new something was drastically wrong in his life and I carefully watched him, evaluated him and his family from then on. He, surprisingly, opened up and showed me the real him and his troubled relationship between him, his father and his mother.
edt: If you desire to have a good look into the socio-pathic mind set, watch: "The Iceman: Confessions of a Mafia Hitman" and HBO's "The Iceman Interviews"...chilling!!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 14, 2012 - 09:04pm PT
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Splitter, you have a vast cornucopia of stories and insights. you threatened to delete a while back, please don't! The stuff you share with us is amazing and valuable. Thank you! I mean this sincerely!
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TheSoloClimber
Trad climber
Vancouver
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Mar 14, 2012 - 09:23pm PT
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Some stuff that has happened that I haven't necessarily been privy to personally, but has stuck with me.
When I was in grade 12, one of the guys I knew shot and killed himself accidentally in front of his girlfriend. We were in first period, and they were calling his closest friends out of the class to tell them personally. Everyone else sat and waited until we were actually told what was going on.
One of my best friends has an older brother who's a pilot for Air Canada. It was about four years back I think. He was just outside his house when one of his neighbors came by and asked for a drink. He obliged, and for his troubles, was stabbed in the throat. Man is a beast though, and bit one of the guys fingers off, then ran up the street to get help. He is still flying.
Scary part about that one, is the guy who stabbed him was a school teacher.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/joe_warmington/2010/01/25/12610601.html
On a slightly more disturbing note, my wife made me watch Twilight with her. I compromised by getting her to watch Shaun of the Dead with me, so it worked out.
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad surfing the galactic plane
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Mar 14, 2012 - 11:29pm PT
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Thanks, Jaybro! I won't delete. Sometimes things are difficult to put into words and when i look back at an attempt, it seems rather...
Steve had few if any friends. He was very smart, good looking(used both to his advantage)and had a way of minipulating people that was uncanny. I remember once we were riding home from an afternoon movie or somewhere with his next conquest/victim, a very pretty young girl from my elementary school. Her mother had offered us a ride out side the theatre. I remember her commenting on how wonderful a young man Steve was and me thinking "If she only new what he was really like. What he had planned for her daughter"! I made the mistake of asking the girl what her sisters name was. I thought her mom was her older sister because I had two older sister's and her mom was young and about their age. Her mother took it as a compliment and said so. Steve added/used it to his advantage whenever the opportunity presented itself after that.
One of my best friends lived a mile or so from me. I have clear recollections of one of his neighbors(another 12-13 yr old girl)older brothers taunting me and telling me they didn't want me in their neighborhood because my "friend" had gotten their young sister pregnant. I didn't even know he new her, and I certainly didn't consider him a friend nor lead him to her or whatever.
The kid had evil(or whatever you would characterize it)on his mind 24/7. One saturday afternoon we were taken to the municiple pool for the afternoon. Rather then wait for our ride home, he talked me into walking back home. He made a detour by a pet shop and while I waited out side he stole two Japanese fighting fish which he paired up to watch them with glee tear each other apart.
He initially told me he wanted to be a big game hunter. I first encountered him in a canyon by our homes and he said he was scouting for a falcon nest. Wanted to hunt and trap animals in Africa. He initially enthralled me with his knowledge of animals and big game etc.! He had various traps(cage type)set in different locations, primarily by Balboa Park and the zoo. Never saw anything he had trapped. I don't believe he kept it long because at some point in time, after he had confronted me in regards to letting a bird he had trapped go free, that he confessed his real purpose/reason for trapping, which was torture.
I never witnessed this, but i never doubted what he told me. Evidently he wanted to be sure of this because shortly after he lectured me on letting the bird go he told me where I could find a neighbors cat that he had hung over their backyard fence. He insisted on showing me, kept saying "You don't believe me do you?" I fully believed him, this was after the archery incident, but obliged him anyway by following him over to the fence and the poor cat.
He use to do hideous things with the animals. Told me what he had planned for the bird that day and left me alone with it temporarily. It was a dove, and I clearly remember him telling me how he loved to scratch their eyes with a needle(what he had left to get). I let it go and went home. Evidently the cat was what had resulted, his way of dealing with my act of kindness/betrayal or however he viewed it.
There was this old abandoned house where he kept all kinds of stuff that he had stolen hidden underneath it. Stuff he had either used or planned to use in his rapidly multiplying crimes. His mother use to make candles for Christmas, etc. and had Steve and his younger sister sell them door to door. He used that as a means to find out who was home and who wasn't etc. and then gained access to varios backyards and homes afterwards via the bordering canyons. I remember him showing me a speargun he already had, or planned to shortly use it on some neighborhood dog.
One morning we had made plans to go down to the Balboa Park archery range. We were shooting at the targets, friendly competition between just me and him. No one else was there. After about 45 mins. and out of the blue, this man arrives and without a word to either of us, joins in on our little contest. We won the first two short rounds and the guy, who was directly to my left, was getting very peturbed, made some very crude remarks. Never aknowledged or made eye contact with us though. The third round he won. Perhaps we senced it was the best thing to do, or I followed Steve's lead and let the guy win...I don't really remember. He made a few very sarcastic and belitteling remarks as to the effect how much better he was, how lousy we were, etc. and left. Extremely narcistic to say the least.
Steve and I continued on in silence. It definately had abreviated our otherwise usual morning of doing something we both enjoyed. I just figured it was some jerk with a huge chip on his shoulder and left it at that. Then, about a half hour after the man had left, a rather subdued and and unusually sombre Steve said "That was my dad!"
I was completely shocked. That was all that was said, and like I just mentioned, Steve had been uncharacteristically silent after the man had left, but I would never guessed who the man was. Such a contrast to my own father, to what i had come to expect a father to act and be like. And i new it had a very deep and emotional effect on Steve.
He had never spoke of his father up to that point. I didn't know he even had a father period, let alone one in the vicinity. Evidently Steve wanted me to be aware of this relationship, because shortly after he invited me to his 13th birthday party. He told me to invite my friends. It was to be at a place where they had a backyard pool, a local business. About five or six of my friends showed up. I new Steve didn't have any except one mutual friend, and although all my friends new him since we went to the same elementary school, he was somewhat of an anathema.
Anyway, he told me his dad would be there, made a point of this. i recall his father showing up after we had all been in the swimming pool for awhile. He marched in and sat down at a table(round table with umbrella)with his back to us/Steve. Stayed there talking to the host of the party with his back to us and never once aknowledging Steve. We continued to swim/play in the pool. It was very obvious Steve was effected, every once in a while he would stop and gaze over longingly at his fathers back. Just as they brought the cake out, and called us all out of the pool, his father got up and left. Not once did he make eye contact with his son, kept his back to him and us the whole time(45min-hour). Never said happy birthday, shook his hand or gave him a hug.
EDIT: So before we left the area(summer '62)Steve shows me this big stash of arrows and other stuff he had stolen from an archery store a few blocks away. It was reported in the paper and cops were going door to door. The mutual friend I spoke of spoke with my father about Steve and my dad called the cops and had him arrested. About six months later I was at the local baseball field and was encountered by Steve. Thought for sure he was going to kick my butt. He actually told me to thank my father for whet he did/turn him in. He said that he had allot of problems/issues and was finally getting help! He had been let go for the weekend from some youth facility. I never saw or heard of him again.
edit: I remember him teaching this parrot or macah or whatever that they had at one pet shop to say F. U.! He brought me into the shop to show me. he didn't do it because he thought it was funny, he did it because he new it would, in a somewhat abstract way, destroy the bird. They wouldn't be able to sell it, and they wouldn't be able to keep it in the shop with it saying FU to everyone. He ultimately wanted to destroy everything it seemed.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Mar 14, 2012 - 11:45pm PT
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Probably the most disturbing event i've been a witness to was renting this house , sight unseen, then waking up the next morning and discovering the Yucca dump across the street with empty glue cans , empty boxes of turd corn , and disposable rubber chickens...Thank god i can share this with others...RJ
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