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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 18, 2011 - 06:05pm PT
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The police union is now saying that there were nowhere nearly enough police at the scene on Wednesday night to do what was needed. The police chief has refused to say how many were there, and how many were called in from suburban detachments. (Vancouver police are responsible only for the city proper, about 20% of the area.) Something like 700 - 900 of Vancouver's police, out of about 1,500, were present.
It seems reasonably clear that the police were slow to respond to reports that Wednesday's crowd wasn't behaving similarly to those on other nights, and did not take anticipatory steps such as those for the Olympics. It was common knowledge during the Olympics that there were thousands of police available to deal with problems, with backup from the military.
http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Vancouver+police+grossly+understaffed+Game+riot+union/4967392/story.html
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tomtom
Social climber
Seattle, Wa
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Jun 18, 2011 - 09:33pm PT
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Will there be a repeat on Canada Day?
Americans have been attacked by Canadians in the campground at Squamish on a recent Canada Day. Seems like everyone I know has had stuff stolen when climbing there.
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the goat
climber
north central WA
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Jun 18, 2011 - 10:25pm PT
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I would agree the police response was initially non-existent and it lead to a "hey, if they can get away with it" attitude amongst the crowd. In retrospect there seems to be no single root cause for any of the post-game mayhem. Just define it as a cocktail of frustration, opportunism, stupidity, testosterone mixed with some plain ol' "let's f**k sumtin' up!"
Maybe Dryden was right, why did we used to trundle boulders? Because we could. We just never considered the implications of what would happen if one made it all the way to the road!
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tooth
Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
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Jun 18, 2011 - 11:41pm PT
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I think they need undercover cops with 30-50 wrist bands you slap on like cuffs. GPS locators built in. $10,000 to get them removed. Cops could operate in crowds pretty un-noticed without being violent, targeting guys with loot in their hands.
No flights from the country who's wearing one,
Mandatory public service till they find the money to remove it, etc.
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tooth
Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
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Jun 19, 2011 - 12:33am PT
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Or a spray-on, sticky goop with a gps tracker you can spray on the back of their head, doesn't wash out, the kids don't notice or understand what it is when applied from a 'cell phone' spray can. Have a video tape in the glasses of hundreds of undercover cops, they tape the violation, keep the kid in sight, spray them. They have to show up in court to get it removed and the video is played as evidence for conviction. Along with Facebook.
The most non-violent and un-noticable or non-recongnizable tagging would work the best.
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the goat
climber
north central WA
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Jun 19, 2011 - 02:24am PT
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My first car burgle was in Vancouver, I lost a Blaupunkt to a #%@* punk. Tami, I'm sure you've seen more of the roughneck/redneck side of Squamish than me, however I did get chased out of a few bars BITD and I remember losing some gear to the deep creek rip-meister who stole hardware only to submerge it in Stawamus Creek. I believe the Psych Ledge Posse ably took care of that matter.
Although this event gives Vancouver a black eye, memories are short and it will pass. It's certainly no worse than what Seattle had with WTO. Seattleites have long forgotten about that.....amazing what drugs, gridlock and crappy economy will do.
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tooth
Trad climber
The Best Place On Earth
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Jun 19, 2011 - 10:29am PT
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Jim, I'm just trying to come up with cheap, effective ways to ID the criminals and disable them from regular life (in a weird/awkward but civil way) until they can be dealt with.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 19, 2011 - 10:47am PT
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One thing that's sad from my viewpoint--I'm not a fan of heavy police presence or tough-guy cops who seem like they're looking for an excuse to kick some ass. But I'll take that any day over idiots going out breaking other people's stuff and (much worse) hurting other people.
Seems like almost every society has a small but significant loser class that basically has to be kept in check by brute force. I guess the tough guy cops will have good job security.
Tooth--your idea sounds good, but the losers may try to game the system and see it as a challenge. I'm not sure there's any way to stop them other than massive force.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 19, 2011 - 03:27pm PT
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Opportunistic crime, especially theft, is nothing new at many tourist destinations. IIRC, Squamish and Whistler RCMP have several times staked out trailhead parking lots along highway 99, and caught people in the act. Usually they're from the greater Vancouver area.
Likewise rumbles between climbers and the ekte inhabitants of the rural areas that they visit are nothing new, nor are spats between the youth of Squamish and climbers. If anything, I suspect the frequency is less than in the past. Although Squamish's gritty blue collar past is still not far below the surface, it is changing, and the emergence and growth of a true resident outdoor recreation/climbing community over the last 15-20 years or so has been welcome. The sad side of it is that Squamish is increasingly a commuter suburb of Vancouver.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Jun 19, 2011 - 08:01pm PT
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A doctor's son who was training for the national water polo team doesn't sound like
a deprived child of white trash to me.
It sounds like people need to look a little deeper into the causes
of this social malaise.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Jun 19, 2011 - 09:06pm PT
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Respectfully Tami, there's plenty of blame to go around. While the liquored up kids are the first ones to blame, and perhaps their parents for letting their high school kids go there unsupervised, I think the Vancouver police bear a heavy responsibility for providing inadequate security as well, and tend to agree with the editorialist from Calgary listed above about Vancouverites being in denial.
I also think Canadian immigration policies have a hand in this. What does it say to the traditional working class when rich people from Hong Kong are given preference to the point that the same working class is priced out of the city as housing goes from affordable to outrageous? I've been to enough middle class professional's parties in Vancouver to know there's a lot of anger in that class too that they can't afford to buy a home until their parent's die and they get their inheritance. I also know American professors at UBC who live in Bellingham and commute to Vancouver because of those same prices. I don't think you would have to look far to see why the working class would feel disenfranchised and angry.
And I do agree with wescrist that in general Canadians are more civilized than Americans, though I am beginning to suspect this may have lured them into a false sense of security. To me these riots should mark the end of innocence and an acknowledgement that crowded urban environments and impersonal modern society, not to mention immigration problems, can afflict any country.
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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Jun 19, 2011 - 09:24pm PT
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well stated Jan - 100% agreement here
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 19, 2011 - 09:38pm PT
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You're not going to have any luck trying to find a logical reason why someone would destroy someone else's stuff.
They don't think like normal folks, so we'll never be able to understand why.
Those who do that are just rotten people. They're the reason we have penitentiaries - so we can separate them from the rest of us.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 19, 2011 - 09:57pm PT
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It didn't make you riot, did it?
Must be another reason those ass-holes raised all that hell.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Jun 19, 2011 - 10:01pm PT
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Then how do we explain what happens in a riot when individuals
do things in a group that they would never do on their own?
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bmacd
Social climber
100% Canadian
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Jun 19, 2011 - 10:05pm PT
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in one word -
Lemmings ...
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Jun 19, 2011 - 10:05pm PT
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Good question, Jim. From the videos it seems both. First one person
would break a window and then others would join in as a group to finish the job.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 19, 2011 - 10:16pm PT
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Jan writes:
"Then how do we explain what happens in a riot when individuals
do things in a group that they would never do on their own?"
Rotten people do rotten things individually, as well as part of a group of rotten people. It just doesn't make the national news when a rotten person does something rotten by himself.
These folks - when acting as individuals - are the usual Stars of your local crime blotter.
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