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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Sep 16, 2010 - 04:25pm PT
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yup, just look at how bush and co kept the geeks and nerds locked away....
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Sep 16, 2010 - 05:56pm PT
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Overrulling of objection reversed on appeal. Judicial notice inappropriate of non-fact!
Environmental rules that don't take their costs into account often are bad for the economy. If the right seems to ignore the cost of not cleaning up, the left ignores the cost of cleaning up. We need to compare the marginal costs of both to arrive at optimal environmental policy.
John
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Sep 16, 2010 - 06:26pm PT
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Obama's Science Czar...
“Resources must be diverted from frivolous and wasteful uses in overdeveloped countries to filling the genuine needs of underdeveloped countries," Holdren and his co-authors wrote. "This effort must be largely political, especially with regard to our overexploitation of world resources, but the campaign should be strongly supplemented by legal and boycott action against polluters and others whose activities damage the environment. The need for de-development presents our economists with a major challenge. They must design a stable, low-consumption economy in which there is a much more equitable distribution of wealth than in the present one. Redistribution of wealth both within and among nations is absolutely essential, if a decent life is to be provided for every human being.”
WTF???
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 16, 2010 - 10:55pm PT
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what Holdren is saying is simply that there are not enough resources for everyone to live at the same standard of living that we live at... and with an expanding population this problem gets worse...
...the trick is to design incentives in the market so that the fixed resources that we do have can support more people at a higher standard of living.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Sep 16, 2010 - 11:08pm PT
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One solution in the quiver is to shame - if not pillory - the Duggars of the world...
and the needed "trick" is to be able to do it in such a way that the public - not to mention a few here at the Taco - understands why you are doing it.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Sep 16, 2010 - 11:20pm PT
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"Environmental rules that don't take their costs into account often are bad for the economy."
John all we ever hear about is how expensive environmental regulation will be.
What we never hear about is how expensive a lack of environmental regulation actually is.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:02am PT
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One solution in the quiver is to shame - if not pillory - the Duggars of the world...
finger-pointing (-po̵int′iŋ)
noun
the act of assigning blame as for a harmful policy or unwise decision to another or others, often in an effort to deflect blame from oneself
Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2010 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland,...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:07am PT
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Mrs duggar jumps back like a bunny rabbit....bunny rabbit jump back...bobby peru
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:13am PT
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YES!
The Duggers are right, and so is Octomom.
You see, it IS all about the joy of having a lot of children!
Why, don't you just want to have some more just to see what they would look like?
And look at all the busy and happy times you have with children.
So, having MORE means you would even MORE busy, and more importantly, happier.
Never mind the decreasing lack of resources, both financial and personal
attention that each successive child means.
After all, it is NOT about the children, it IS what the ADULT wants that counts!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:15am PT
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Anybody know where I could get a female version of this.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:18am PT
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Sure Fructose, how is this?
This picture of a ready to explode Nadya Suleman was taken eight days before giving birth to the last eight of her fourteen kids.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:24am PT
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it is amazing what the human body can do...
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:27am PT
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Me thinks... more than a few pollyannas on this thread need to bone up on Peak Oil, the Limits of Growth, carrying capacity deficits - and the REAL WORLD impacts of these. Unless their goal is to actually promote dieoffs in and amongst their own species - perhaps even to see them firsthand in their own lifetimes.
But I don't think that is their goal, sadly I think they just have their head up their ass.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:39am PT
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We have definite global problems that we have certainly induced. They are solvable if we have the fortitude and the political will to solve them.
We have the technology and knowledge to do it. We have solutions. We have a clean renewable energy resource, a massive Fusion reactor safely 93 million miles away, providing us (for the most part) limitless clean Solar energy aplenty.
We have abundant natural resources galore that we could safely tap into within our Solar neighborhood, if we just had the fortitude and the will to do it. What is holding us back?
The greed and power of a few.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:40am PT
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"Manipulators strive to divorce us from the facts. Rather than encouraging us to examine the evidence and reasoning of people who appear to disagree with us, they block communications and openly or indirectly try to persuade us that people who disagree with their views are ignorant, dishonest, not trustworthy, incompetent, biased, racist, only concerned with money, insulting our intelligence, corrupt, betrayers of the American dream, and so on. The subtext is: "Do not consider alternative points of view. Do what we tell you, without realizing that we are controlling you." Like cult leaders, manipulators encourage us to close ranks and form an in-group suspicious of those who question the party line."
Propoganda Techniques and Manipulation of Mass Perception .Dr. Lees-Haley 12:64-68, 1997.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:48am PT
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Who's YOUR hero, is it Christine O'Donnell? Or perhaps it is the Momma Grizzly.
.....
How rich! when Abrahamic supernaturalists - steeped in arrogance, closemindedness and BRONZE AGE stupidities - post quotes like above - quotes that apply to them - they themselves - more than to any other "personality" demographic.
I'm suddenly reminded of Ted Haggert.
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"Pop ignorance will be civilization's undoing."
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re: Zubrin's book. I have it and how pie in the sky. Does anyone seriously think that it's even a remote possibility when we can't even get our act together here on Earth?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 17, 2010 - 02:04am PT
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We have abundant natural resources galore that we could safely tap into within our Solar neighborhood, if we just had the fortitude and the will to do it. What is holding us back?
In the 1896 a coal mining operation started up in a town called Tesla, CA... when you ride your bike out of Livermore towards the east you can ascend one of the passes in the direction of Corral Hollow Rd along Tesla Rd.
Along the way you will pass a town that no longer exists, and the industry that was to sustain the town was going to be coal mining.
This is easily within 30 miles of where I am sitting, another 25 miles to the San Francisco bay. Yet back at the turn of the 19th century to the 20th century it was less expensive to ship coal in from Europe than to transport it from the mines of Tesla to the bay.
It was a wonderful idea, perhaps before its time, out competed by efficient shipping, and out competed by hydro-electric power, the technology failed to utilize this "resource" just sitting 50 miles from civilization...
I mention this because the usefulness of abundant material resources so close by can be an illusion. There are rich fields of minerals sitting on the ocean floor, not deeper than 10,000 feet, that are essentially so remote that they are irrelevant at this time, we can't get to them...
The promise of fusion energy awaits the first controlled thermo-nuclear burning of plasma, a first step never accomplished (though we have certainly achieved uncontrolled burning). Once we do that, and understand the physical parameters required to sustain burning, we can work on what a fusion reactor would look like... most of the "engineering" problems are so daunting that it is not worth working on them before we know what the conditions of the burn are... and the potential applicability.
I'm not saying we won't get there, we might this year or the next ignite plasma and burn it... or maybe in 10 years at ITER, or maybe the next generation of fusion machines... but the use of fusion power is not immanent.
Technology development accelerates, probably no faster then the rate that population increases... if the needs for the resources increases at a rate faster than the population increase, then technology probably cannot provide the difference. That's a conjecture...
...but assuming that technology will bail us out if we just "exhibit the will" to wield it is wishful thinking that is dangerous, in my opinion.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Sep 17, 2010 - 12:33pm PT
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re: collapse (economic, social) and darwinism:
Here's what today's savvy people (many wealthy, steeped in hidden away resources) have in mind - and what YOU ought to have in mind esp if you're not wealthy and padded with resources - in the event of impending collapse, either economic collapse or social collapse. In the words of Michael Ruppert (Collapse, 2009) who uses a camp metaphor ...
"I'm not advocating social darwinism, I am witnessing actual darwinism."
"If you're in a camp with a bunch of campers and a bear attacks, you don't have to be faster than the bear, you only have to be faster than the slowest camper."
This is one reason why more resourceful folks (richer folks) don't have to be as worried as others and are seen skipping along in their lives humming hakuna matata.
Reminder: Talk of darwinism or warning of impending darwinism writ large is not "advocating" social darwinism. Don't shoot the messenger.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Sep 17, 2010 - 02:58pm PT
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HFCS,
Surprisingly, much of what you just said I can agree with. That is how the rich and elite think. It's criminal.
The age-less and endless War between the haves and have nots.
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