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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 16, 2010 - 01:17pm PT
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I think theres a point where one says enough. Ask Europe how they feel about the new muslim push and neighborhoods containing mosques.
Maybe Europe should have thought about the long-term consequences of subjugating and colonizing muslim nations around the world before pulling that particular trigger. As it is, Europe is bearing the burden of a reverse colonization from its former colonies, and one richly deserved from a historical perspective.
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I_do
Social climber
Utrecht
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Jul 16, 2010 - 01:30pm PT
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Ron,
are you telling me to go fish? I don't need to, I live in the Netherlands, I watch the news and I looked up the figures. I told you the way the numbers of, and ideas of muslims are expected to develop in the Netherlands.
I don't disagree with you because I'm uninformed, I disagree because you don't know what you're talking about.
How is going from 5-->8% muslims and thirty years, while developing a more western mindset islamification?
I gave you my reasoning now you show me yours.
Fattrad,
these people you are talking about are the real victims. much more muslims die of muslim terrorism then anyone else.
Maybe they should have revolted.
Maybe most of them don't even know half of what's going on.
Maybe most of them live in a regime which will strike down hard on insurgents and they are afraid, rightfully so.
These people have no obligations to you and are in no way responsible for when some dickwads decide to blow sh#t up.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jul 16, 2010 - 01:40pm PT
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Welcome I_do!
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jul 16, 2010 - 01:46pm PT
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Yes welcome Ido. Don't expect the mouth breathers to be enlightened by the facts and reality you present. Anything that challenges their dogma must be ignored.
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I_do
Social climber
Utrecht
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Jul 16, 2010 - 01:53pm PT
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Thanks to the welcoming commity!
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I_do
Social climber
Utrecht
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Jul 16, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
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Ey Fattrad,
interesting point of view, however I don't think I can agree with it. People working for lockhead or boeing make a conscious decision to work for a company who's business is war, they are free to do anything else. I don't think that's true for the people on the other side of the equation.
Good to hear you are critical of "your" side of the conflict though, makes it a lot easier to take you serious.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 16, 2010 - 02:11pm PT
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Yes welcome I-do -however:
I_do, Utrecht Jul 16, 2010 - 09:36am PT
, said: "
Eh Ron,
you might make a stronger case about your contacts in Holland and the Netherlands if you realized they weren't seperate countries.
I didn't see where Ron called this, he claims it was a joke: the many times I've been to the Netherlands everyone there seemed to believe that Holland was part of the Netherlands and not a separate country, I could see that being humorous though. As far as that goes, saying "have you ever been to a Muslim country" on this web site: can somehow define if you know what you are talking regarding Islamic countries reminds me of the story of the 3 blind men all describing an Elephant. There are many versions of this story, all of them have the blind men touching different parts and describing different things which none of us would recognize as an Elephant.
To describe the middle east as "a this or a that" is very disingenuous, even if you have traveled to a relatively benign and westernized country like Lebanon, is absurd. Even in Lebanon alone, there are radically crazy different ideas, forces, history and powers at work that could be discussed endlessly. Druze, Copts, Palestinian refuge camps, various other Christians and many Muslims sects in a strange milieu. Much like trying to say that all people in the Netherlands are like Geert. http://www.geertwilders.nl/
Any South Moluccan will tell you that they are not, of course, and that any country with a rich history such as the Netherlands boasts, or the many varied and different countries we are discussing here, would be incapable of such a simple description.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 16, 2010 - 02:29pm PT
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Run, Ron, RUN!!!11
Muslims are EEEEEEEVVVVVEEEERRRRRYYYYYYWWWWWHHHHEEEEEERRRRRREEEEE!!!!!!!111111
Aaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 16, 2010 - 03:02pm PT
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Again, bummer about those post-colonial woes - if Wilder had been around in the 17-1800s he'd have been pro-colonial all the way. Bummer it it was so shortsighted. And that he doesn't like the current day result? Bummer dude, but it's guys just like him that f*#ked it up to begin with.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 16, 2010 - 03:32pm PT
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Islamification f*#ked up to begin with? Hmmm, consider for a moment what they say that about democracy when they read US newspapers and see the online news. The daily and massive raping, killing, robbery, drugs we (and they) see so common in our country and most Western democracies take a dramatic turn to the invisible in strict Islamic countries where a Sharia one strike law is basically in effect. You know what? They don't want that sh#t in their countries! So they feel that the trade off away from strict Sharia law to one of out of control violence is not one they choose to make.
Imagine that Ron:-)
I'm 100% with Geert on this one: "Dear friends, liberty is the most precious of gifts. My generation never had to fight for this freedom, it was offered to us on a silver platter, by people who fought for it with their lives. "
We have had it so good for so long that it is often easy to overlook that which is truly most important. Liberty, my friends.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 16, 2010 - 04:32pm PT
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Sheikh Yousef Al-Qaradhawi, head of the International Union of Muslim Scholars (IUMS), has recently voiced his opinion on various political issues, especially the Palestinian cause, claiming that the only way to liberate the occupied lands is through resistance. He called on Muslims to wage jihad of self-sacrifice, adding that those who are unable to do so should to take up other forms of jihad. He also criticized the Arab leaders for stubbornly clinging to the political process in general and to Arab peace initiatives specifically, which he claimed had achieved minimal results. Al-Qaradhawi praised Turkey for its contribution in the Gaza flotilla, and Mauritania for severing its ties with Israel.
And the devil can quote scripture for his purpose.
I don't think you can cherry pick and use that as an example of a vast and old religion's basic principles. It's one quote of one individual from an organization is probably as political as many of the institutes and organizations here in the U.S. that form under the guise of appearing politically independent but are really just mouthpieces for a special interest group. Does any one really think Swiftboaters were just a group of swiftboaters who got together to talk about swiftboats?
You could probably find even more provocative language from any of the very popular, well respected Christian groups in this country. Who was it, John Hagee, who said that Hurricane Katrina was God's retribution for our sinful ways. Other have said similar things about the 9/11 attacks. Are we then going to ban the building of any christian churches near the site? Accordingly to your logic, we should.
Admit it Fatty. You're just a hater.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jul 16, 2010 - 05:40pm PT
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Build baby Build!
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apogee
climber
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"...the building currently on the site the centre will be built on, which is two blocks from the site of the World Trade Centre. (Blocks are rather long in Manhattan.)"
Democracy, tolerance and common sense indeed.
Especially since this site is two loooooong blocks away from ground zero, is not truly a 'mosque', and actually shares the same building with another interest.
Of course, for the islamo-paranoid, the fact that they are in the same hemisphere is proof enough of the conspiracy. How do you wingnuts sleep at night?
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Aug 10, 2010 - 01:17pm PT
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The Japanese occupied Alaska during world war 2 and thats not really taught in grade school either.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 14, 2010 - 12:48pm PT
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The latest: LA Times
"Supporting the mosque is a dicey proposition for Obama. Polls have shown a certain percentage of Americans mistakenly view him as a Muslim. He is Christian. Defending the mosque invites suspicion that he is overly sympathetic to the Muslim faith. At the same time, Obama has taken pains to reach out to the Muslim world. He gave a major speech in Cairo last year calling for "a new beginning" between the U.S. and Muslims."
For me, it comes down to deciding what fundamental principles I want to support.
For the Islamic Fundamentalists, the most offensive gov't is not the US, it is Saudi Arabia, the custodian of Mecca and Medina. It was no accident that the 911 hijackers were Saudi. The dream was to provoke the US to attack Saudi Arabia, and set the two satans against one another. This is how they think: if only they can get the Christian World to fight against the mainstream Muslim World, then they will pick up the pieces.
This is exactly the same plan that Charlie Manson had, except it was the White and Black worlds, then he would pick up the pieces. (Helter Skelter)
The radicals goal is to distrupt American life and ideals, turn Muslim Brother against Christian Brother. Every time that happens, it gets used in a huge way for propaganda to radicalize more muslims against us.
So, do I want to further our American ideals, or do I want to further the ideals of the Manson Clan/Radical Islam visions of the world?
My choice is clear, and I'll stand next to my muslim brothers, although I'm not a muslim or christian, myself....because they are my AMERICAN brothers, doing what this country was created to allow, religious freedom.
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michae1
Gym climber
san jose
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Aug 14, 2010 - 12:59pm PT
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it seem's to be in bad taste , most new yorker's don't want it as most americans don't either
just say no.
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throwpie
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 14, 2010 - 01:40pm PT
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Religion of all stripes creates division at a time when we earthlings need to come together in peace. Thank god I'm an atheist...no cosmic ledger keeper for me thank you very much.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Aug 14, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
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So if a community thinks it is generally in bad taste to allow a jewish synagogue in their town, it should be prohibited?
Freedom of religion is subject to a good tastes requirement? So I can start banning catholic churches???
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