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The Real Ryan Kelly
climber
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The Fake Ryan Kelly wrote: "Thanks for the thoughtful responses and the entertaining back-and-forth, hope no one was permanently offended."
Well I was offended. Scarred perhaps.
First I get a random email from a friend after 7 months on the road, something along the lines of "hey man, I was wondering when (if) you were coming back. I saw your post online about the valley; guess you're back. But seriously, posting up about flowers and whatnot, what the f*#k happened to you in Asia?"
Turns out some guy on ST stole my name and went all Nancy Pantsy trying to untarnish a name I worked hard to soil. Then I have no less than 3 different people in the same day ask me what the f*#k is up with going AGMA. AGMA? This will not stand, man. I'm going to have to ask you to either change your name (officially) or start offending people online. The ball is in your court.
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climbOff
Trad climber
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Jul 23, 2010 - 09:31am PT
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30 years from now one won't be able to climb without a guide... period. That's what is scary.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jul 23, 2010 - 11:02am PT
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Whoa, how did I miss all this gold? I really am in my own world sometimes.
"Good morning sir, may I help you?"
Uhhh....nope.
"Why are you here sir?"
To climb this cliff, what's it look like?
"Ok, that's fine sir. May I see your A.A.C.Q.C.A.C.C.R.C.?"
Wha? What are you talking about man?
"I mean your Association of American Climbers Quality Control Association Certification Cash Register Card."
What the f*#k man, I just came to go climbing.
"So......, you don't have a card then sir?"
No I don't have a c*cks*cking whatever card, I just came to climb!
"Ok, that's fine, settle down sir. You can hire an AACQCACCRC guide right over there at the kiosk next to the certified climbing food shop."
Huh?
For the record, I'd rather go climbing with coz or Croft or Werner, people I know, than a AACQCACCRC guide.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jul 23, 2010 - 12:34pm PT
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What's up with this fake ryan kelly, real ryan kelly issue?
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 23, 2010 - 08:37pm PT
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My only point was to charge more and quit under-cutting, stick together, and cut out the Mafia.
Here's the birth of the new mafia, same as the old mafia. And the wheel keeps turning!
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 23, 2010 - 08:38pm PT
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And as for pricing in general...
Supply & demand will dictate that. Market forces. The only problem is that the market may not be educated to know the difference between the holy masters of the climbing world and the 6 month top-rope instructor still in puberty. And so, some enterprising folks form an industry accreditation program to solve this market problem, and then the people politics and power struggles begin.
Now we've solved the problem of pesky market forces deciding prices, and we have this silly regulatory stuff to skew the price system. So folks who don't know (and maybe don't care) who is a climbing god will pay more for a less experienced person with a cert. And folks without the cert can lean on their hard-earned street cred with the small group of folks who know that (but who unfortunately are less likely to hire a guide).
Welcome to the world of business, where the right technology or right skills don't mean you're going to do better than others (get more income, make more profit, etc.), or even succeed at all.
If you want to be the whipping boy for the big bad unfair world, do that. If you want to increase your earning potential as a guide, sack up and jump through the certification hoops to do that. It's a pretty clear business decision and fairness has nothing to do with it.
But as for changing the world and making it a better place and preserving our future freedoms, etc.... That is a different issue. I'm all for whatever public actions to thwart mandatory certification to work in a given area. Consumers should have a choice of certified or not. It's up to the certifying organizations to increase the public awareness of their value, and it's up to the fringe independent folks to counter-balance the power of the cert agencies. That's my consumer perspective.
If I was a landowner and wanted to allow climbing on my private property, I would probably stick with certified programs to make my life easier with insurance agencies. Then maybe give case-by-case exceptions to frequent guides with widely recognized experience. But that gets tedious and time-consuming and opens up to legal risk of lawsuits for unfair exclusion, etc... so the list of exceptions would be short and after a few legal problems would be non-existent.
And so it's back to a business decision. Get the cert if it's your career, or accept the consequences. And enjoy the wild west while it's still wild.
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Rattlesnake Arch
Social climber
Home is where we park it
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Bump. One of the best threads...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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I missed this one first time around.
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