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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Sep 11, 2008 - 04:39pm PT
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Acually TKingsbury,I do know Obama's position on the issues.I read his entire website one evening,watched all of his race speech.He seems like a good man,but light on experience,and I find his idea that he is ready to be president a bit arrogant.I like him much better than Hillary.
Unlike the hatefest here,I think we have two reasonable candidates for president.Much of what Obama is promising seems pie in the sky,and he seems not to have any idea how Washington really works.I am left wondering how he will form a cabinet with just half a term in federal government.McCain,by comparison is a realist.
Central to current Democratic dogma is the idea the country needs to be turned upside down.You are welcome to believe that,but I don't for a minute.
Until I started visiting Supertopo,I had no idea about the incredible hate that flows from the left,for what appears to be fully half of the people of the nation.The party of love has no place for those with any differing opinions from their own.At this point I would no longer consider voting for your candidate,though I did consider it for a while,because it would appear your hate for your fellow Americans is just behind that of the Taliban.I don't want to be a part of that party,thanks.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 11, 2008 - 04:45pm PT
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Tomcat, you'll fit perfectly in the Grand Old Party of Whiners. Adios.
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Sep 11, 2008 - 04:55pm PT
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Tomcat,
I think you mistake anger for hatred, although the two are sometimes very close. I'm outraged at the continual barrage of lies McCain and Palin are blowing out their asses. McCain had promised to run a clean campaign, but found out that he didn't have a prayer of winning on the issues. I used to respect McCain, but no more. The "hate for Americans" is coming from Karl Rove style politics. Rove I'm sure hates Americans and views them as only pawns to be manipulated in any way necessary for power grab. I'm beyond outrage at the lies and corruption of the Bush admin. I can tell you if McCain is elected using these tactics, that anger only continues to build. If Obama and McCain can't win on their own merits, but only on Swift Boat politics, we're all the losers.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Sep 11, 2008 - 04:56pm PT
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I'm beginning to think Biden may pull out. Or to put it another way, it could be something is going on sub rosa in the Dem leadership to put Biden aside. If accurate, could Hillary be brought back in? This would throw another interesting twist into the mix.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Sep 11, 2008 - 04:56pm PT
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The party of love has no place for those with any differing opinions from their own
Strange...up here in Montana we elected a democrat for Governor, and he choose a republican running mate...
it would appear your hate for your fellow Americans is just behind that of the Taliban
Damn, I thought you said it was the dems who were spewing hate...
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Sep 11, 2008 - 05:02pm PT
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The GOP strategy with Palin is to use her as an attack dog that no one else can question or attack in return. She can be vicious, but anyone who questions her in anyway must be portrayed as attacking women or families in general. In fact, this seems to be the entire reason she was picked for VP: so that the GOP could fabricate controversy around her. She certainly wasn't the most qualified. Case in point, she won't take ANY questions from reporters. If she had to actually speak to the issues, would she have nothing to say? She's demonstrated no depth of knowledge of foreign policies or the US economy. GOP playbook: any attack on Palin is to be re-framed as "sexism" and\or "a shameful attack on an all American mom." This is typical Rove GOP playbook. Just as questioning of the war "plan" was for a time re-framed as "not supporting the troops". What a pity if we elect these fools.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Sep 11, 2008 - 05:19pm PT
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I see that Ron Paul is calling for voters to vote third party. Any chance he may pick Cynthia McKinney as his running met?
If so, he's got my fault despite his foibles and idiosyncrasies. He certainly is a better candidate than the two clowns we have to pick from.
“Hi, my name is John Bozo McCain”...
... “and I am Barack Ronald McDonald Obama, pleased to meet you.”
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Sep 11, 2008 - 05:27pm PT
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The Vice President only has two roles: Getting the President elected and stepping in if the President cannot serve. If the President chooses to, the VP can also help govern.
Obama is running for President and after a long slog the Democrats nominated him. He picked a plausible next President as the VP. Biden also helps shore up Obama's short experience, although only Obama decides to use Biden's experience. Whether you vote for Obama on not, no one is left completely in the dark about who Biden is and what sort of President he might be.
McCain, on the other hand, picked Palen to shore up his election bid, both with the Republican base and some women voters. As an unknown and a women, she clearing brings things to McCain that few others could. She can attack Obama and then Obama has to invent some new code of fairness for attacking back. Palin makes a joke--a good one--and the pig's lipstick line, which has been used for a hundred years to describe some old thing being dressed up as something new, becomes sexist?
Great choice for McCain to help get him elected.
However, what McCain did not do was pick a plausible next President, Gingrich's assurances notwithstanding. It does not make any sense to compare the experience of Obama to Palin, because, with his short resume, Obama became the Democrat's nominee only because he has run a stellar campaign against a strong field and prevailed. He has taken on the Democratic Party’s ossified leadership and brain trust, and prevailed. It has been pretty impressive.
Palin just showed up based on a 15 minute meeting and cursory vetting. While McCain's political instincts may be stellar, he showed us that his judgment under duress is either faulty or cynical. It is unlikely that Palin will gently lean in and correct McCain the way his friend Lieberman did in Iraq when he confuses Sunnis and Shiite. Maybe we can count on Cindy to remind him not to sing a song about bombing a foreign country. I don't have any idea if Palin would even think of the consequences. (She actually discussed the issue of banning books with the town’s librarian. Where did she think that conversation would go? So many discrete ways to talk about book selection that meets the varied needs of the population, so let's just start with banning.)
Prospectively, I thought both Obama and McCain were plausibly good Presidents. Both have flaws which I worry about, but I did not think the chances were high that either one would blow it.
But the Palin choice tipped the balance for me. Now I urge young people, who otherwise don't vote in high percentages, to vote because it is likely to be a very close election.
I also hope that both McCain and Obama have long and happy lives.
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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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Sep 11, 2008 - 09:39pm PT
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Roger,
Why do you have to be so clear thinking and balanced. It kind of kills the mood of this ST party. ha
As to the experience debates, they all seem to ignore the more important point- namely intelligence and capacity. Obama is one in a million and fully vetted at least on the intellectual level. And to my judgment clearly capable as a world class player, what ever you think if his urban politics. Palin is a question mark at best. Maybe a quick wit while speaking but can she follow the complexities of economic monetary policy or a detailed state department brief on the history of and internal power struggles within Pakistan? There is certainly no evidence of remarkable intelligence in her past.
The scary thing to me is that most of the electorate can't even see the distinction. $100 million bucks (McCain) isn't elitist but Harvard Law is.
As someone said, this is beginning to look like a bad Disney movie; beauty queen-hockey mom becomes president of the world. But its for real. Scary stuff. But then again - as someone else has said - we get what we deserve.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Sep 11, 2008 - 11:17pm PT
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Better skip the Prozac and go right for the Thorazine.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 11, 2008 - 11:28pm PT
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"but the odds are looking pretty good at this point. At very least, it is extremely close. "
How many ways can a person hedge their bet? LOL You are funny Lois, no one is going to peg you down.
You are against torture but for McCain ( who voted for torture ).
You are for small government but vote for a party that for the last 30 years has created bigger government, bigger then the other party.
You are for abortion but vote for a party that is against it.
You hope everyone has healthcare but don't want to do anything to make certain they have it.
You like tax cuts and don't seem to mind large deficits.
You think Obama doesn't have enough experience to be President but think Palin has plenty.
Is any of that substantially wrong?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 11, 2008 - 11:37pm PT
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You are too funny Lois. I didn't call you evil. You did. Thats your tape. Perhaps you should take a look at that. I am just trying to understand you.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Sep 11, 2008 - 11:52pm PT
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For anyone interested in trying to understand a little more about our political economy....so not you Lois....."The Predator State", Galbraith 2008 provides a fairly plausible explanation for the apparent contrast between The Bush administrations' talk about small government and the reality of massively increased spending during their watch.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 11, 2008 - 11:53pm PT
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Lois, I am much more of a pragmatist then you realize. Its not pragmatic to wishfully hope the republicans will change without doing anything on your part, especially if you keep voting for them. My father is a pragmatist and is voting against McCain. He has also written a few letters to party leaders explain his choice.
Its more pragmatic to look at what your party is doing, then communicate what you like and don't like about it to them. Rubber stamping whoever they send your way does not do this.
The dems would have not become more fiscally responsible then the republicans if party members had continually rubber stamped their candidates.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Sep 12, 2008 - 12:06am PT
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Sis, you got it backwards again,it looks to me like a lot here are already on Haldol; they're dancing with the dwarf and the horse; do you let just anyone cut in?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 12, 2008 - 12:08am PT
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I am sorry that you feel that way Lois. The nation needs more openness in its political dealings. If more republicans would tell their leaders that they don't like what they are doing, such as allowing torture, and do it openly, then the message would have to get across, or the leadership would be censured. As long as they can hide things, and as long as their party members will continue to vote for them, then they don't need to change anything.
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Binks
Social climber
i am of the universe and you know what it's worth.
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Sep 12, 2008 - 01:06am PT
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TGT prozac, thorazine, doom. You have nothing of substance to say as usual. Just like your GOP talk radio masters.
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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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Sep 12, 2008 - 01:29am PT
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Leb, I don't think that is a fair analysis.
Being in the senate is by definition a exercise in collegiality. Often not making enemies is the wiser road to take so that you can call in your chips on the issues that you consider most important. Particularly if some bill is neither particularly offensive NOR very helpful. Whats the point of taking a principled stand if the outcome is a wash? By comparison the executive has it easy. Your every word becomes a command. Who needs friends and who needs to reflect on the consequences? In fact, its the current administration's "who needs friends" attitude that has made us so many enemies in the last few years. A little mood of cooperation and give and take might make the world a calmer place.
Anyway, so what is the "big decisions" Palin made from her executive seat. To send American boys into battle. To drop bombs on foreign cities? To befriend or "regime change" a compliant but despotic foreign ruler? Or to fire the dog catcher. Proposing the analogy that any old "executive" experience makes you qualified to be president isn't well reasoned.
I admire Palin as an individual but she simply isn't prepared to rule the world - err, I mean the country. And that is after all the only reason there is a VP. So that when the old man croaks someone can take over the reigns.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 12, 2008 - 01:49am PT
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Lois, the dems have changed. They are more fiscally responsible now then they were 30 years ago. Dems demanded that and it has taken hold.
......
So you think it is terrible that Obama voted present 130 times in 8 years with over 4000 votes. Well you must really think McCain sucks because he has missed 408 votes in just this year alone. I haven't yet found out how many votes he has missed over his entire career. As for Obama voting Present. That is actually a strategy they use in Illinois. Sometimes it is used to indicate that you favor the idea behind the bill, but you don't like the wording.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/01/24/fact_check_obamas_present_votes/
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/m000303/
130 present votes over 8 years versus 408 missed votes in ONE year.
LOL.. too funny Lois. And by the way, I don't care whether you vote republican or democrat, my concern is based on something much deeper. Until all Americans start paying closer attention to what our leaders are actually doing instead of what they say, then we will continue to have the messes that we have. I don't hate republicans. My father is one and I love and respect him very much. I hate what has happened to the republican party over the last 30 years, which is one of the reasons my father will not be voting for McCain.
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