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Gene
Social climber
Two hours away
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Sep 30, 2004 - 07:46pm PT
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I bet almost all of us think that the situation in Iraq sucks. We disagree on whether the USofA should be there. We argue our views in such simplistic views such as freedom versus Halburton and oil. We talk in shorthand and buzz-words. Self determination versus tyranny, slaughter versus sacrifice, jihad versus liberty, terrorism versus democracy, etc.
Folks, we did this back when the US was playing in the SE Asia Conference, aka Viet Nam. Most of us agreed in about 1968 that Nam was a mistake It took another six years and untold number of lives to unwind that monster.
We have all seen a piss-pot full of posts stating that the current war is bad. OK. How do we bring it to an end? Neither B or K seem to have an “exit strategy.” How do we get out? What do you see as the resolution to this war? Blame and flame are well represented here. But what’s the answer to putting this nightmare away?
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Flash
Ice climber
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Sep 30, 2004 - 08:16pm PT
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I have an exit strategy for Iraq...level the friggin' place, make an international parking lot out of the place...if Bush is making a mistake it is that he is falling into the trap of a PC war over there. Screw them!
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Matt
climber
SF
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 30, 2004 - 08:30pm PT
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you see, now i think you are a liberal that is just trolling.
only satan would say that and mean it.
but since this is my thread...
did we go over there to save the poor iraqis, or to get all the f*#king terrorists? btw- there are millions and millions and millions of them, so your taxes will have to up if you want to buy rummy enough bullets to kill all of them.
karl has previously posted about the 3 state solution, seperated on ethnic lines, i say it will never happen, unless it happens after we get out. it does make sense on the surface, but i don't know anything about the distributon of resources in iraq. i heard today that some of the southern provinces moved toward establishing an autonomous territory, so maybe the wind is blowing that way. i'd guess that the place will become a religious theocracy not so different from iran, but with lots more random violence, kind of like the worst of central and south america, combined with a terrorist breeding ground.
(hollywood loves the sequel)
the turks will be pised off, but they stuck it to us on the front end so i say go ahead and piss them off, the problem of their own supressed kurdish population is their problem anyway.
whatever happens, there will be no love lost for us, so i don't see what we are doing with 140k americans over there for any amount of time.
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TW#T
Gym climber
san diego, ca
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radical.......any chimp can talk about the problem.....but no one here can come up with a plausible solution. Sounds like someone didnt study for their GED's.
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dougs510
Trad climber
Nashville, TN.
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TW#T, your good at spewing flames, but I ain't seen no "Problem solving" ideas from you.
So, I guess being good at being an A$$whole is better than being good at nothing.
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dougs510
Trad climber
Nashville, TN.
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TW#T, your good at spewing flames, but I ain't seen no "Problem solving" ideas from you.
So, I guess being good at being an A$$whole is better than being good at nothing.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Marin Hot Tub Country
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2004 - 02:18pm PT
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{ultra long post alert}
I want to address a couple things here; some gross misrepresentations and
outright mistruths have been made about me by Matt and Karl.
First to Matt: Your comments about "AM radio" show your close-mindedness,
and clearly exhibit your unfounded assumptions about my politics.
Yes, I do listen to a fair bit of AM radio. Usually I listen to Ronn Owens
from 9:00am-12 noon on KGO 810am. I like him because he is really fair;
he takes an equal amount of Liberal and Conservative callers. He also happens
to be a Liberal who has stated for months that he is voting for Kerry.
This morning he was stating his opinion that Kerry was clearly the winner
of the debate last night. I could be listening to Bill O'Reily or Rush Limbaugh
if I wanted to hear a one-sided point of veiw. Yawn...
Speaking of KGO, if you check the Personalities Page, you will find
virtually all Liberal show hosts, with the sole exception on Dr Bill Watenburg,
who happens to be a nuclear physicist who is actively working on anti-terrorist
devices--and is the man who designed a device to stop semi-trucks with
a simple push of the rear bumper.
Off the top of my head, (from listening to them over the years)
Here's a sampling of KGO (810AM) hosts:
Pete Wilson is a left-leaning moderate who is voting for Kerry.
Gene Burns is a longtime Liberal host.
Bernie Ward is a devout Liberal who makes a lot of good points.
Ray Taliaferro is a radical "attack-liberal" who makes me roll my eyes with his
outrageous, improbable theories, but he is entertaining and makes me laugh.
John Rothmann is a Liberal who is fair, balanced and has a lifetime worth
of valuable insight.
Karel is an (very) openly gay host who is hilarious to listen to;
he is incredibly witty and scathing. Sometimes he drives me nuts,
but I'm never bored!
Right now I'm listening to Al Franken on Air America, 960AM. Thst's right, AM.
As in Amplitude Modulation.
They seem to have a live audience, there's a lot of cheering in the background.
Willie brown is talking right now...
The reason I prefer Ronn Owens is because Al and Wille are ridiculing Bush with the
audience laughing and roaring its approval. While this might be a feel-good
exercise for the Bush-bashing crowd, it's the same type of stuff I grew up listening to...
Next!
Sorry, I prefer a moderate host who has the balls to take on all points of view.
Way more interesting! I also listen to "Lional" --he's on sat nights at 10:00pm
on KNEW 910AM. He's really funny; he sounds like Joe Peche with that high
voice of his. So careful with your assumptions. Let's talk politics over a beer
sometime; you might just be surprised...
With that out of the way, Karl has made an outrageous charge which simply isn't true:
Karl wrote (in regard to matt):
Neither he, nor I (especially not me), have started that many political threads. We just jump in. And I remember a few political threads that Hardman started himself (some deleted after a short time like one "Bush is turning around the economy"
Whoa! How on earth did you come up with that? Me starting political threads?
Are you nuts? I remember posting a thread titled:
"I love the diversity of opinion on this forum", and hot-linked a poster of
a bunch of hand-guns, with a rainbow sign that said "Celebrate Diversity".
That was a couple years ago. While I did comment in a (very) few political
threads, I don't remember starting any -- certainly not the one you listed above.
WTF?
And I most definitely never deleted any threads like that.
(which I couldn't have done if I wanted to, since I didn't start the threads)
Care to explain yourself?
Finally, I never understood why people would want to carry on political dialogs
with a group of climbers, on a climbing-specific forum.
For those of you who think posting political stuff to a group of climbers
is a good idea, there's a much, much better place do do that.
It's the Community forum on Rockclimbing.com.
As of this morning, there are already dozens of posts about the debate last night,
all of them made by climbers. You will reach a vastly larger number
of climbers--on an order of magnitude. Check it out. Way more bang for the buck!
Personally, I would recommend checking out Usenet. Learning how to use
a newsreader program isn't all that difficult, and is what we had to use before
Gore invented the internet.
It is still a vastly superior medium than any Web-based forum;
you need to use it to see what I mean.
Here are some groups I found, using just the keyword Politics:
alt.politics
alt.politics.bush
alt.politics.economics
alt.politics.elections
alt.politics.gw-bush
alt.politics.immigration
alt.politics.liberalism
alt.politics.media
alt.politics.radical-left
alt.politics.republicans
alt.politics.socialism
alt.politics.socialism.democratic
alt.politics.socialism.libertarian
alt.politics.usa
alt.politics.usa.constitution
alt.politics.usa.constitution.gun-rights
alt.politics.usa.republican
soc.politics
talk.politics.guns
talk.politics.libertarian
talk.politics.mideast
talk.politics.misc
talk.politics.theory
us.politics
us.politics.elections
wash.politics
There are probably thousands more...
If this is all too complicated for those of you who think programing a VCR
is akin to rocket-science, you can always read Usenet using the Google Groups
interface. I must warn you--and Dingus will attest--that using web-based Google
instead of a newsreader is like driving a golf cart on a race-track instead of
a Lamborghini Diablo, or getting a massage in a wetsuit instead of being nude.
Try it, you'll like it!
(To Matt:)
Nobody is telling anyone what they should or shouldn't post.
I'm merely making a suggestion--as a user of this forum.
There are so many much-better, on topic venues specifically for politics,
where you truly won't be preaching to the same samall group. (choir?)
You will get a much more diverse opinion form all over the world.
This is a climbing specific forum with an emphasis on Yosemite.
Can't we have 1 cool place where we can get away from politics for a while?
Broaden your horizons dude, and let us shallow-types have our little playpen!
{/ultra-long post alert}
Hardman Knott
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Flash
Ice climber
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HK, I appreciate what you are trying to say but you give the wackos credibility by responding to them.
The truth doesn't matter to them, only their hysterical agenda.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Hey Poodleboy, uh huh..you flash. Or maybe I should just say chickenhawk...cluck, cluck. Speaking of wackos, you're right up there with the lot of em.
I have to wonder when I see someone who continually uses inflamatory verbaige such as yourself, do they ever see anyone or any issue in anything but extreme polmics? Especially if their views differ from yours. From your posts I can only believe you have serious issues. Sort of like looking in the mirror and seeing the dreaded "L" tattoed on your forehead...LOL
Unfortunately it looks like we have more lock-stepping, jack-booted bobbleheaded losers like you in this country, who never learned how to have a open and non-emotive discussion, you know like they teach you in college.
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Flash
Ice climber
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College? Nope, I didn't need college to teach me to use common sense. I am sorry to hear you were too stupid to figure things out on your own and you needed the indoctrination sessions in a University to do that for you.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I'd like to post my regrets to Dave (Hardmanknott)
I searched myself and found that it was another Dave who started a thread entitled "another political thread"...
Sorry bro
Karl
PS. Talking with wonks I don't know and who don't know me is not the same as sharing with the homies at supertopo. Sorry if politics are upsetting. Maybe we should find a way to separate the OT threads from climbing threads? Webmaster?
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dakine420
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Flash: You are a tool. A little education for some people is a dangerous thing. You are one of those people. You learn a little something about something and then you think you know it all. Worse, you criticize those who pursue higher education believing you already learned it all and need to know nothing else.
There is a reason why you are the way you are and do what you do. You are an incredibly lonely, shallow person who finds the need to criticize others as a means of justifying yourself. You wallow in the fact knowing that you get to other people with the things you say. You get excited knowing that you piss people off with your off color remarks.
Anything else you would like to know, you can call my secretary and make an appointment. I have a sliding scale starting from $100 to $185. Given your profession, I might make an exception for you to go lower.
But don't f*ck around dude, get help today. After all, help is just a phone call away.
alan
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Marin Hot Tub Country
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2004 - 04:16pm PT
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Karl Baba wrote"
I'd like to post my regrets to Dave (Hardmanknott)
I searched myself and found that it was another Dave who started a thread entitled "another political thread"...
Sorry bro
Karl
PS. Talking with wonks I don't know and who don't know me is not the same as sharing with the homies at supertopo. Sorry if politics are upsetting. Maybe we should find a way to separate the OT threads from climbing threads? Webmaster?
Thanks Karl. I know you're a stand up guy. BTW, politics aren't upsetting; in fact
I'm very political these days. Also, it has nothing to do with Left or Right-wing views.
It's just that I feel there's a time and a place. Just my (knott-so) humble opinion.
As far as "wonks you don't know", I think you would find many, many more people
you know to talk politics with in the Rockclimbing.com Community Forum than here.
I think you guys should at least check it out just to see. You can thank me later...
Hardman Knott
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Flash
Ice climber
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Hey dakine, how do you know how much education I have? I went to a prestigous west coast University...
I, unlike most of you, know how to think for myself.
BTW, does Michael Moore or Al Franken need help like the kind you are recommending for me? I didn't think so...hypocrite!
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atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
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prestigious university?
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yo
climber
NOT Fresno
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Barstow Community College
Well, if he says Cal Poly SLO, we'll know who it is. Nuke Boy.
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Flash
Ice climber
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"Barstow Community College"
Worse! Chico State!
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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“Can’t we, can’t we, can’t we….
Can’t we all…
Can’t we just all get along?”
-Rodney King
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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Why don’t we turn all this negative energy into some love people, come on, what’d ya say; the meadow, around midnight? Come on, I’ll bring the lube.
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tex
Trad climber
everett, wa
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normally I never vote in elections, don't care for the process or the results as a rule, so rather than spew about it all,if I'm not willing to vote, I keep have for the past 20 years kept my mouth shut...but this time, I'm going to vote...and it will be a vote to cancel Matt's vote...Matt, I don't like you...period...so I'll vote to cancel out your vote and make you a non-vote in this election. You will make no difference with your vote. Thanks for making my "undecided" stance a vote against you...btw, anyone wanting to reply to this, good luck as I won't view this forum ever again, having resigned from this exercise in stupidity before you read this...and just to restate ChrisMacs policy upon joining, which I have noticed is routinely violated...
"Thanks for your help in making the SuperTopo Climber's Forum a friendly
and informative source of climbing tips, discussion, and beta."
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