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WBraun
climber
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Sep 10, 2017 - 05:53pm PT
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Climbing Guide
My life and times as a human winch .....
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Timmc
climber
BC
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Sep 10, 2017 - 06:02pm PT
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Thanks D2R2 and Donini for injecting a realistic perspective of what a certified guide must do to make it safe and fun for a client, and make a living. There was another thread about this somewhere...
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Timmc
climber
BC
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Sep 10, 2017 - 06:15pm PT
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Thanks Anders- that's the one
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Gowen Geter
Mountain climber
Chamonix, FRANCE
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Sep 10, 2017 - 06:31pm PT
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No disagreeing with the dangrs of the work.
Any thoughts on whether $500 p.d. is good money for guiding zee Nose
But having clients py an additional $500 p.d. that goes to the YMS for doing relatively SFA?
Donini: Most clients don't earn in an hour, what a mountain guide gets paid p.d. Especially not when the terrain is truly "unique" and "challenging".
Guides earn upwards of $500 p.d. to guide on solid-hard routes in N.A., Europe, and High Asia. Many of those guides make more in a day than what most of their clients earn. Admittedly, though, when you break down to hourly rates, the pay ain't so great with the guide making more like what a medical intern clears per-hour-of-effort while paying-off 7+ years of college).
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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Sep 10, 2017 - 06:35pm PT
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how fast?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 10, 2017 - 07:05pm PT
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$500 per day for a guide is not good money for guiding the Nose. Consider that the guide is working a 24 hr. day. If a guide were able to garner that wage by guiding five days a week for fifty weeks they would pull in $125,000 per year....a decent wage, but there are other factors to consider. Obviously, the opportunity to do that does not exist...guiding is very seasonal. Additionally, if the opportunity presented itself can you imagine that anyone could summon up the physical and mental energy to do it...I can't.
Guides, generally speaking, get paid only for the days they work which, on a yearly basis, are very limited. They also do not receive the benefits of salaried, full time employees.
Sure, they make the decision to be guides with their eyes wide upon, but I think that they are underpaid for the work that they due....certainly when compared to European guides.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Sep 10, 2017 - 07:25pm PT
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Employment is not compensated at what effort goes into the task at hand. Rather it is supply and demand. Great example is professional football players vs. the lady taking care of seniors for little more then minimum wage. The lady taking care of seniors works harder and has a more important job, yet she will never come close to making the minimum NFL salary, currently $465,000/year. Hell, the annual increase in the NFL minimum (15k) is more than a year of minimum wage work.
Until there is more demand for guiding than there is guides, wages will be depressed, or set artificially by the monopoly, Aramark.
What is a guide worth? whatever someone is willing to pay.
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Gowen Geter
Mountain climber
Chamonix, FRANCE
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Sep 10, 2017 - 07:47pm PT
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Until there is more demand for guiding than there is guides, wages will be depressed, or set artificially by the monopoly, Aramark.
What is a guide worth? whatever someone is willing to pay.
I wonder how much of what is paid to Aramark, Exum, Jackson Hole Guides et. al. is burnt on over-priced insurance, exorbitant permits, and marketing with a low ROE? I wonder how many owners of Exum et. al. rationalise, 'I'll still pay a good full-year income to myself, even if I can't utilise my business all-year'.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Sep 10, 2017 - 08:13pm PT
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Following the Moosenose would require triple overtime / hazard pay to climb thru the toxic Moosedrool...
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Sep 10, 2017 - 09:24pm PT
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Like mynameismud (one of my good friends) asked:
How fast are you planning to go?
In a day?
Or multiple days?
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Jasper72
climber
Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2017 - 08:27am PT
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Multi-day. I wouldn't NIAD with a random because simul-climbing is almost mandatory, and I'd want to have some mileage in with someone before simuling. Plus I'm too old and fat to do it in a day now...
I have two single ledges (which I'd prefer to natural ledges because of crowds). I'd strongly prefer someone who's done walls before and can follow a traverse, set up his/her own ledge, etc.
I think this is a big ask from someone: belay is boring AF, and some pitches will take me 30+ mins to lead. That said, I think I have someone willing to do it, but we'll see... seems like these things tend to fall through.
Thanks all.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 11, 2017 - 09:11am PT
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I wouldn't NIAD with a random because simul-climbing is almost mandatory
No, it isn't!
You obviously know very little about big wall climbing .....
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Jasper72
climber
Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2017 - 02:09pm PT
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I was going to put my name in the hat, but you just talked me out of it : ) Ha! Well, I guess I'm my own worst enemy.... again
Seriously tho, pulling weight on a team in any way, including belaying and hauling the whole thing, is fun as all fuk if you have a clue, and it's not a gimmie at all. Good luck staffing up.
You have a great attitude, Mike. I agree, though I've belayed some 6+ hr leads that had me wanting to untie and jump off.
Speaking of which... Eric George... are you out there still? Does anyone know how to find him?
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Jasper72
climber
Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2017 - 02:13pm PT
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You obviously know very little about big wall climbing ..... Thanks, Werner. I hope you and Merry are doing well. You were both very kind to me when I was on SAR. Truly two of the nicest human beings I've ever known.
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Jasper72
climber
Boulder, CO
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2017 - 02:16pm PT
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I'm outta here folks.
I did have an ST account about 15 years ago, but left when it seemed to be too vitriolic for my tastes. I don't remember that account name now, but I didn't post much anyway.
Thanks to all, even the haters. Be safe out there.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Sep 11, 2017 - 10:00pm PT
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Thanks for replying.
If you are leading every pitch, that means you are also hauling every pitch, including 2 portaledges and water for 3-4 days.
I predict you will get pretty tired!
Usually the people who bring portaledges on the Nose do it because they are not sure they can climb fast enough to reach the ledges.
(Better to make sure you have that speed instead).
Or maybe if there is a high risk of a storm and you can't wait until better weather.
Although since you said you were on YOSAR some years ago, this is more interesting.
Have you done the Nose before?
So you may indeed know what you are getting into.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Sep 12, 2017 - 09:19pm PT
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Good point.
I haven't used that method, but it sounds good for sharing the hauling.
(As long as the bag is not getting stuck).
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iron duchess maiden or whatever
Social climber
under a pile of rock
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Sep 13, 2017 - 08:15am PT
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As i am watching the beauty of sunrise on the valley, I can't help wondering about the foulness on the Taco.
 The sunrise is via the webcams. The foulness seems just as real as the sunrise. Perhaps more. It seems I can smell its stench.
So...
Jasper left in disgust, after leaving in disgust some 15 years ago. Sounds familiar. I 've done that too.
This begs the question: why bother with this community? A question I ask myself each time I log in.
A guy seeks a partner, gets excrement in his face, asks again, gets more kra-p, reveals he was yosar, and says goodbye. Wow.
Donini and Werner spoke, so I cannot add anything meaningful, except for the beginning of the thread which reminds me of a little episode. This is in response of "Canvas C4, pay someone etc."
Jasper72, if you still read, which is unlikely: if stuck, talk to Nanook, Dave T. or Libby... better than canvassing Camp 4.
Which brings us to this funny story, in 2011. A dude is canvassing C4 for a mule to load gear to Wings of Steel, or some line further west. He targets a friend of mine, whose understanding of english is limited. 70 dollars are offered, and I listen on to make sure my friend is getting the details. The canvassing dude tells me: "So, you're a groupie". Mistake. "No, I am a friend". (The silent part is: and I think you are trying to f*#k my friend, so I am watching you). Canvassing Dude talks about supertopo, and how gloriously famous he is on those pages. My friend does not know the Taco, and "I know the Taco, but I don't post much'. "So you're a lurker" says Canvassing Dude. Mistake and insult number 2 in less than 1 minute. My friend agrees to muling the load the next day. After Canvas leaves, I explain how far the line is, and how long the loading will be. My friend realizes his climbing day will be scrao-oed for 70 bucks. 2 other camp 4 dwellers are willing to meet Canvass at RDV and mule for him. The next evening, these 2 have waited all morning for Canvass Dude, who never showed up, and lost a day of climbing. Canvass had hired another mule for cheaper.
Oh, and when Canvass Dude dared to name me a groupie and a lurker, he boasted: "they call me Pass the Piton Pete". Funny, I saw him groupying the Huber brothers when they broke the NSR in 2007. And I heard of his climbing partner's call for a bail out from the top of EC, because she could no longer stand him.
This might put insults and canvassing into perspective... Maybe.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 13, 2017 - 09:23am PT
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ST reminds me of Camp 4 in the early 70's. If you are new to the scene you are viewed with suspicion, if not disdain, by the regulars.
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