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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 30, 2010 - 04:15pm PT
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Lodi ain't known for it's safety. My wife got a gift certificate for a Tandem there and I sold it and paid the difference for her to go to Davis.
My brothers first time there he asked about the landing and they just said "you'll figure it out" he almost landed on the freeway and came in UNDER the power lines.
Sure is fun to watch them when we're blasting down 99 though!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 30, 2010 - 04:39pm PT
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From: http://www.terragalleria.com/mountain/info/yosemite/base.html
Back to El Cap, in 1980 the park experimented with allowing skydiving. Some people who wanted to legalize and promote jumping off of EL Cap convinced the USPA to establish legal jumping with the NPS. Reasonable guidlines were set up like permits, liscense requirements, time of jumping, probably similar to what is happening now with hanggliding. This lasted about 2 or 3 months. There were a lot of problems such as people leaving trash and damaging the environment and not following the requirments.In general many people were not behaving responsibly. There were a few rescues and minor landing injuries but no fatalities of major injuries. While all this was happening 'the as#@&%es' decided that they didn't want to hike all the way to El Cap so they drove there truck up an old logging road as far as they could. This must have been from Big Oak Flat. The Park may have arrested or cited them, but the USPA thought It would help our image if they took action against them and expelled the people involved. Then these people sued the USPA claiming they had no business regualating base jumping. The USPA decided to drop the whole thing. The NPS outlawed base jumping in national parks. Skydivers and base jumpers did not make a very good impression with the NPS and base jumpers alienated the USPA. Now back to the present. In 1993 a base jumping organization tried to convince the park to allow base jumping and was not succesful. I think that it would take an organization such as the USPA to convince the NPS to allow base jumping. There is little chance of this happening because of the past incident in yosemite and the liability it would place on the USPA.
Isn't it wonderful when a few asshats ruin things for everyone?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 30, 2010 - 04:43pm PT
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Thats the way it always goes fet.
If rock climbing hadn't been invented until the '80s it wouldn't be allowed in the parks either.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 30, 2010 - 04:44pm PT
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Defineatly Ron. Thanks goodness for "grandfathered in".
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pc
climber
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Aug 30, 2010 - 05:20pm PT
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That's a great story Darth. thx.
edit. Huh. What story?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Aug 30, 2010 - 05:59pm PT
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Funny.
All this talk of landing in trees, parachuting in national parks etc...
Once when I was a smokejumper we got called to jump a fire in Lassen NP. The spotter chose a jump spot. Right next to it was a massive dead snag with huge dead arms. Obviously to be avoided at all costs. Out goes my buddy Jeff. It looked like the snag put some sort of suction beam on him. He steered directly into the thing and ended up hanging about 100 feet in the air from some dead limbs. Yikes! He rapped out (one carries 3/4 inch webbing for those circumstances) and walked away from it all.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 30, 2010 - 06:16pm PT
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People who rap on 3/4" webbing are crazy.
They should be tased on the spot for their own safety.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Aug 30, 2010 - 06:25pm PT
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After reading most of these posts... the more rational ones, not the name calling, I want to kick your ass ones, I have revised my opinion... While the Yeas have some good points, I am personally not convinced that it is a good idea, but perhaps, there could be a 6 month trial period where it is legalized, with some regulation. Then we could really see if the Nays or the Yeas prove to be correct. After 6 months it would reviewed and amended as necessary and be finalized. I don't really think the NPS will go for such an idea but it would be something to strive for, and might be considered if approached by the right people, in the right way.
From an earlier post... there is a very strong wind blowing from west to east in the valley for most of the spring and part of the summer. The "famous jumper" was unable to fly into it to make the meadow, not to mention even making the bridge. As soon as he opened he was blown hard to the east and lucky to land in the river and not the trees. He was uninjured and got out on his own... wish I could remember that guys name.......short guy, maybe Spanish....mmmmmm...or that other guy who opened late and hit at the base of the wall breaking his ankle... damn... who was that guy??.. he is a really good one too .... oh well... old age you know... weak mind... memory shot to hell...
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Acer
Big Wall climber
AZ
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Aug 31, 2010 - 04:08am PT
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I think NPS did that trial period awhile back. We know where the rules are today.
My memory isn't perfect.
Continued BASE jumping especially with incidents will not help the cause.
Hueco tanks climbing has had a tough Access history.
Just an example of recreation where admin wanted it on way and rec people did it another. Almost total lock out for climbing. Still quit restricted.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 31, 2010 - 10:45am PT
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When you outlaw jumping only outlaws will jump.
This shouldn't have been a stunning discovery for even a wannabe pirate.
(but I still suspect that it was a sporting hunt)
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Aug 31, 2010 - 11:44am PT
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If rock climbing hadn't been invented until the '80s it wouldn't be allowed in the parks either.
Ron's probably being slightly sarcastic, but he's probably correct.
It took decades of steady, hard work by the Sierra Club (at a time when the SC had a lot of pull and connections) to get the NPS to accept climbing in the Park. Lots of points where it could've gone south. Now, it's become an acknowledged historical-cultural practice, so it'd be really difficult for NPS to ban it completely.
When Jay Taylor's new book comes out this fall, you'll be able to see how close we came to having no climbing in the park. And we can all more easily imagine a future in which climbing is much more heavily regulated that it is today.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Aug 31, 2010 - 11:55am PT
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I wonder if the logic of using a taser is/was following:
Ordered to stop, the guy is running - failure to follow a lawful order.
Giving chase, the guy ain't going to stop so I am going to have to tackle him. Still may not cooperate once on the ground and I have no back up (now up to resisting arrest). We both could get injured or worse (tack on using force against a LEO).
Option - use the taser. Perp is taken down and incapacitated. Problem solved.
To be honest I can completely understand the logic. Where the problem comes in is at what level of crime should a taser be used? I am sure some would say anytime you run, you put yourself in a position to be zapped.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Aug 31, 2010 - 12:01pm PT
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If rock climbing hadn't been invented until the '80s it wouldn't be allowed in the parks either.
Ron's probably being slightly sarcastic, but he's probably correct.
Actually he is not being sarcastic. And I am pretty sure where Ron got that from was from a comment from a NPS Ranger from Yosemite who was asked during the Mountain Management Workshop in 1991 here in Salt Lake City "If rock climbing was a new sport would it be allowed in the Parks?" He said no it probably would not be.
Unfortunately, I can not remember who it was who said it as I would have to look through the bowels of my organizing notes (the workshop was a cooperative effort between the Access Fund and the Forest Service). That said I believe it was Armando Menocal who asked the question.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 31, 2010 - 12:49pm PT
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If you want to read about gross misuse of tasers, the Robert Dziekanski incident at Vancouver airport in October 2007 is a graphic example - from Canada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dzieka%C5%84ski_Taser_incident
The resulting judicial enquiry came to the conclusion that Tasers were oversold, much less safe than claimed by the manufacturer, and misused - to put it politely.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 31, 2010 - 01:29pm PT
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Does Lobo carry a toy one?
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 31, 2010 - 01:44pm PT
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Choice Phaser:
One for Locker
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 31, 2010 - 02:18pm PT
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http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/death-of-teen-on-bike-shows-risks-of-expanded-use-of-tasers/1112106
"Late one night in October, a 17-year-old on a bike was chased by a police officer in a cruiser. When the boy refused to stop, the officer aimed his Taser out the driver's window and fired. The boy fell off the bike and the cruiser ran over him, killing him.
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"Number 55 occurred in Bradenton one week before Victor's death. Police tried to stop him because he didn't have a light on his bicycle. When he ran, police hit him with a Taser. He died within 35 minutes."
Four days later, police in Panama City fired a Taser "at least twice" at a man who tried to conceal cocaine by swallowing it. He went into cardiac arrest and died."
"There is no question that Tasers frequently save lives by offering law enforcement officers a nonlethal means of stopping people who present a threat to the officers, the public or themselves. But as the four fatal cases from 2009 show, Tasers are also being used to subdue people who appear to pose no threat.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 31, 2010 - 02:40pm PT
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Yeah.
The Chris Rock video is funny, but we need better paid and more professionally behaving police officers.
Bottom line; no threat, no darts. Cops need to stay in shape, and be held to a higher standard of behavior than the untrained civilian.
But Ammon may have been a special case if the rangers actually had Ted Nugent's improperly filled out hunting tag,..
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Gregg Olson
Boulder climber
Moorpark, Ca
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Aug 31, 2010 - 02:42pm PT
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Ok... let me see if I have this "FatRad". You are saying they are not lethal unless there are pre-existing cardiac conditions or they are under the influence of drugs. How is the person on the delivering end supposed to know any of this ? How can you not see the fact that if there are more then one way to kill someone with a taser by accident or not means they are lethal ?? Wow.. The Gop convention in your name says it all.
Anyone that thinks an illegal base jump and an attempted run from "the Law" = even the smallest chance of death needs to check there moral compass. ( Im not saying you do FatRad, Im just saying).
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 31, 2010 - 02:48pm PT
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Tasers have killed people with no medical conditions and not on drugs many times. They are less-lethal, not non-lethal.
They are better than a shot with a bullet, but since they can kill they shold be used as a last resort. Which is often not the case.
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