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Hoots
climber
Tacoma, Toyota
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 8, 2009 - 11:37pm PT
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What hangers are people using for 1/4" or 5/16" buttonheads? Do standard hangers (petzl, metolius, etc) work, or is it a pretty sloppy fit?
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Greg Barnes
climber
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If you have the original 5/16" buttonheads, you'll need any modern hanger with a 3/8"/10mm hole.
For 1/4", I use old stainless SMCs with 5/16" holes that I pulled while replacing the 1/4" bolts. Since I do a ton of bolt replacement, I have a "free" source (free is a relative concept...). But a lot of those stretch and bend and smash before (or during) replacement, and loads have 1/4" holes (easy to rattail file out a bit to get the buttonheads through) or 3/8" holes (which are "undersized" 3/8" holes that don't quite fit the sleeve of a 5-piece bolt but do fit a 3/8" stud bolt).
Theron Moses makes a new little stainless hanger that works great, but they are pricey since he does such low volume. A minor downside for racking 1/4" bolts on lead - the hole is a tad large, so some 1/4" buttonheads will hold in them, and others will fall back out instead of staying put (although you can always use a little bit of duct tape to hold the bolt in).
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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the handful of Moses gear quarter hangers, pinch the split shaft really well. mine are all old skool tho, not new powers style.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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I found that 1.5" 1/4" buttonheads didn't stick in the moses hangers.
But luckily the 1.25" ones worked fine.
Mine are from some batches of 1/4" buttonheads from maybe 8-10 years ago or so.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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the old ones are the ones that stick?
yeah, mine are about that old too. left overs from working at Western retail shop.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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No, the short ones work, the long don't. Same general era.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Yo Hoots,
Nice meeting you last weekend. Be in touch.
Cheers,
Jerry
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mikeyschaefer
climber
Yosemite
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I tried using the 1/4" Moses hangers recently but quickly realized normal 3/8" petzl, metolius or Fixe hangers worked better for my application.
I was placing 1/4" on lead and then pulling them with a tuning fork and replacing with 3/8". The Moses hangers are so soft and small they get totally mangled after one use. I started using a 3/8" hanger with a washer and could re-use them a few times and they were still fine.
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Mad Rock... with 5/16" washer...
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T Moses
Big Wall climber
Paso Robles
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I originally designed these as a lightweight hanger designed for backcountry stuff where 1/4 inchers would be placed. I thought they would work well for "lead and replace". Bryan said they were a little delicate (or something like that). Seems to me that these hangers don't fit the bill for "lead and replace" tactics. I will change my webpage later tonight to reflect this. They are still plenty strong for the applictaion I originally intended for them.
http://mosesclimbing.com/lightweight-14-bolt-hanger/
If there is enough demand I might make a burly hanger for "lead and replace". 5/16" bolt hole, room for one full size biner, minimal extra over all size. Maybe out of 4130 steel and then powder coated. Hmmm...whatdaya think?
Mikey: I am sorry that you aren't happy with the hangers. Contact me so I can make it right with you. If you still have the hangers I would like to see them.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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I haven't put up anything that hard that I couldn't hook and place a 3/8ths.
But if you are stance only, then the harder steel might make sense.
what would be the difference in weight?
right now I have on BC project in mind that I'm only going to place quarters on to save weight.
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T Moses
Big Wall climber
Paso Robles
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It's when you remove them that they get distorted. Placing shouldn't be an issue. The lightweight hanger is currently half the weight of the Petzl Couer. 23 grams. I am considering beefing it up slightly.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
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How about an oldschool style metal strip type hanger for the (removable) 1/4in bolts? Y'all know what I'm talking about, the kind of hangers you find on old obscure routes throughout the country fastened with the old star drive bolts. They're easy to make, lightweight, easy to get a bar or tuning fork under and best of all, cheap to make.
Moses, I'm sure you could produce something like that which could retail in the sub $2.00 range, but what do I know about that. I know I can make em for about a buck a pop, but I wouldn't mind paying a little for some refinement, quality (control) steel and the fact that "I didn't have to make it".
Anyone ever pull test the old 3/16 in aluminum ones? Seem pretty bomber and lightweight to boot. Just a thought.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Oct 10, 2009 - 03:25am PT
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^^^ Yeah and they double as Bottle openers.
Lightweight aluminum ones are pretty strong, and easy to pull.
T what about busting something out this winter eh?
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Hoots
climber
Tacoma, Toyota
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2009 - 11:58am PT
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Sal, originally thats what I was trying to find. I've seen some Pika hanger that fit the bill but haven't been able to locate any. I'll just go with the washer trick to make some hangers work. Thanks guys.
That would be sweet Theron, make a "safe" version of the Tooey beer top hangers that Darryl Hatten was prototyping! I smell a niche market!
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mikeyschaefer
climber
Yosemite
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Oct 11, 2009 - 05:34pm PT
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T Moses, no worries on the hangers. Can't actually say I am unhappy with them. I think I was just using them a little outside of their design scope.
They would work great for permanent placement just not for repetitive pulling and placing.
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Slabby D
Trad climber
B'ham WA
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Hey Theron why did you use stainless steel for the 1/4" hanger when buttonheads are all carbon steel. Won't this lead to accelerated corrosion?
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T Moses
Big Wall climber
Paso Robles
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Slabby,
I have given this some thought but haven't come to a conclusion yet. The stainless is strong in the as worked condition and doesn't corrode. The drawback is the galvanic corrosion you mentioned. The drawback of a "regular" steel is that most of the time it needs to be heat treated to be strong enough to be a viable option for a hanger. Leeper had problems with his 4130 steel hangers that I would like to avoid. Certain plating procedures (for corosion resistance) have bad side effects on heat treated parts. I have thought of using 4130 in the "normalized" state (harder than the "annealed" state but not heat treated). I need to test it. I'm thinking of building my own testing rig (a la Aric Datesman's from RC.com). I am also considering revamping the design. Slightly thicker material (0.125) and 1/16" larger outside dimensions are options I'm weighing.
I have a bunch of stuff "in the works". Big hooks, Tomahawk #2, and stuff I'd have to kill you if I told you about (SLURP's & friction hooks). Shhh...it's a secret.
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Slabby D
Trad climber
B'ham WA
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...big hooks?....you're going to work everyone into a frenzy talking like that.
Thanks for the reply. Knowing nothing about metallurgy it'd interesting to see how many constraints you're working with. I guess you could always powdercoat the stainless?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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If you are talking mild steel, split shaft and bent shaft buttonhead bolts are inherently unfit for climbing use. Period....Why doesn't everybody just stop pretending otherwise. Even though I dislike the design, dinky stainless wedge anchors would be better and in the same price range by the box if you are drilling lots of small holes.
If you are using a stainless buttonhead design, are you using Powers or some other brand?
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