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bikebarnwill
Sport climber
Penticton, BC
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 25, 2009 - 01:55am PT
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I was out mtn biking one morning and came across a bouldering area I wasn't aware of. I also found a stash of mats. I have asked around a bit and haven't found out who they belong to. What's the rule...if I head up with my own mat, can I borrow (and replace when done) a couple of the pads that are already there? Or is it bad form to use someone else's pads?
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bikebarnwill
Sport climber
Penticton, BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2009 - 02:10am PT
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Thanks...I think starting an open fire in an area prone to huge forest fires would be more unethical and illegal than tucking some matts under a low overhang in a somewhat remote that only mountain bikers or climbers would head to. But again I appreciate the advice.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Jun 25, 2009 - 02:17am PT
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jun 25, 2009 - 02:23am PT
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Use 'em and put 'em back--unfortunately, that's what they are there for.
I think it's a ridiculous and careless act committed by lazy folk to "stash" or cache foam rubber pads to be consumed by varmints and left to rot.
Using them, and/or leaving a note behind for the litterers will do (you) more good than harm.
Sad, that elements of recreating in nature "evolved" (ahem) into this practice.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Jun 25, 2009 - 02:23am PT
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I think the answer is pretty obvious.
Use 'em and put 'em back where you found 'em. Would you care if someone did that to you? I wouldn't.
And when you are done unleash a pot smoking wolf on Rox so he has a *real* problem to address.
Though it is pretty lame to not pack 'em back out. If they disappeared the old owners better not whine about it (not that I'm suggesting anything)
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apogee
climber
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Jun 25, 2009 - 02:26am PT
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"I think it's a ridiculous and careless act committed by lazy folk to "stash" or cache foam rubber pads to be consumed by varmints and left to rot."
Man, that's really feckin' pathetic. Can't even carry out your own sh*t.
What is the proper ethic? Carry all of the damn pads out, keep the one you like, and sell the rest at a gear swap (preferably out of town, so you don't get your @ss kicked).
Lazy-ass pad-people.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Jun 25, 2009 - 03:52am PT
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Stashing bouldering pads is really lame especially because there is good evidence that animals eat them and then get sick or die because of the foam. The NPS staff at Rocky Mountain National Park had a big issue with stashed pads last fall and initiated a big cleanup. Try cleaning up bits of foam blown all over the place!
Also lame is leaving draws on a route and expecting them to be there when you come back. This thread shows up about every month or so over on mountainproject.com. If you leave gear, be prepared for it to be taken. Whether it is right or wrong, doesn't matter. People will take gear that is left on climbs. That's the reality we all have to deal with.
Bruce
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Jun 25, 2009 - 04:08am PT
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Rokjox, do you think a wolf would eat a crash pad?
If they will, you should start inviting the pad people into Idaho so they can stash their pads and the wolves can eat the poisioning foam.
Maybe they will eat the pad people also and you will have killed two birds with one stone.
It's all about creative problem solving.
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cody hall
Sport climber
apple valley
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:59am PT
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rokjox, you talk a tuff game (about a dog) But the more you type, the more Foolish you seem.
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:15am PT
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Does anyone remeber the time where bouldering areas often had layer-on-layer of old carpet built up under the problems? I went on a couple of climbing area clean-ups where we probably pulled out hundreds of pounds of old, dirty, wet, carpet remnants. Gross.
So now we're looking at hundreds of dollars worth of bouldering pads left out in the wilderness?
Sounds like it's time for a climbing area clean-up.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jun 25, 2009 - 08:17am PT
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"Try cleaning up bits of foam blown all over the place! "
I had that experience once!
An early trip to JTree, I had bought one of those styrofoam coolers and filled it with my cache of goodies - fresh produce, eggs, juice, butter, cheese and such. Two weeks worth.
The second day, I came back to camp in the afternoon and saw something amiss.
There was a plastic baggie of vegetables placed in my nylon dish washing basket, hanging from one of the bushes. NOT where I had left the basket.
"Why would someone put vegetables in there and leave them for me?" I wondered.
As I looked more closely, they became familiar. They were MY vegetables....
"WTF?" I thought all sorts of thoughts. none of which was the correct one, until I pulled the veggies from the bag and went to put them back in my cool.......er.
It was GONE! Someone had MADE OFF with it!!!!
Only then, as I scanned my campsite for clues, did I begin to see it had snowed sometime earlier that day. Snowed petroleum compounds.....
Little bits of my cooler were EVERYWHERE. Drifted up against boulders, served up like hors d'oervses on the spikes of every living plant in the camp, mingling with the dessert sands....
But where was my cooler???? Looking and looking and looking, I finally located it under an overhanging boulder like a long-forgotten crashpad. A crashpad that had obviously seen better days and, if it could talk, could spray so wetly most would simply shake their heads in wonderment, thinking "Only you, Whitey. Only you....."
Some dessert rat had BOOTIED my cooler! The damage was well over what my dirtbag deductable covered(food to be shared with neighbors and friends during the trip). It had been TOTALLED. Scratched to sh#t, the top had easily been stripped off as if the Jaws of Life had been employed by rescuers. An entire quarter panel was missing...... Gone. Juts. Gone.
Oh....not quite gone. Remember the snow?
As I scanned the grounds for evidence, taking an estimate of the cleanup costs for my environmental damage, I began to see survivors limply hanging to life amidst the reckage. A Cliff bar over here, a tomato there. Stick of butter shuddering under their flimsy blankets in an attempt to weather the weather.
I never did find an entire POUND of chedder cheese. It was gone without a trace. So gone one had to wonder if an alien abduction had occurred. Perhaps the one who'd left the clue - veggies in the wash basket - had adopted that cheese for some reason. Perhaps the veggies had offered "Here. It's a small token to repay the kindness, sir. Take the cheese. Please. We want you to have it."
I spend an entire hour scrunched down and picking up pieces of that cooler, and time over the next several days picking cooler lint out of the bushes and crevices of that campsite area.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Jun 25, 2009 - 10:06am PT
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I would take out all of the pads and a leave a note regarding reasons for not stashing the pads, basically they become trash, animals eating them, etc. Along with note tell the owners where the pads can be found - ie. drop them off at a local shop.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
the base of the Shawangunk Ridge
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Jun 25, 2009 - 10:21am PT
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who in their right mind would stash pads? aside from the obvious ethical and environmental impacts to the area, they are expensive as all out. I lock my crap in my car and bury it under other stuff to avoid getting ripped off. Only a fool would leave pricey gear out like that.
I say its fair game- but burning them would probably create an unsightly mess unless you were going to take a bit of time to clean up after the fact.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jun 25, 2009 - 10:29am PT
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I like the taking them out, and leaving a note saying where they will be idea that was mentioned upthread. The action would put responsibility and accountability into the picture, and bring awareness of the situation to others in the (climbing) community.
It would also avert a turf war between the culprits and others who use the trail.
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jun 25, 2009 - 10:47am PT
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And if you ever come across an illegal white trash camper like this, burn it too.
Rokjox: Here is a picture of the trailer we allowed to get buried for more than 10 years on Forest service land, so that we could have an overnight hut. We moved it every year, so the forest service could not keep track of it as easy, as they kept telling us it was illegal.
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pedge
Trad climber
SW
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Jun 25, 2009 - 11:08am PT
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Rokjox, you wouldn't talk so tough if you actually spent time in an area where rabid foxes will chase you down.
Big bouldering pads left in the places I like to wander around in are ugly. Just one more unnecessary gymnification intrusion.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 25, 2009 - 11:58am PT
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Nice one, Fet!
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anointed one
Gym climber
my mamma
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Jun 25, 2009 - 08:29pm PT
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all fixed lines and stashed boulder pads should be destroyed.
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Erik Christensen
Boulder climber
Bozeman, MT
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Jun 25, 2009 - 08:44pm PT
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Rockjox said:
"It represents littering and a lowering of the standard of "leave no trace". If you consider yourself any sort of outdoorsman, or to have any sort of respect for the natural world, you would condemn the practice also.
Most "environmentalists" are phony bastards, whose ethics crawl and disappear when they are faced with things that interfere with what THEY want to do.
Are you one such individual?"
So, in relation to the trailer thing, are YOU one such individual, rockjox?
edit: I forgot to mention, I don't stash pads nor would I condone stashing pads.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jun 27, 2009 - 03:07am PT
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Rox, Erik is just looking at the big picture on a stash/cache/shelter such as you have elaborated on. A similar situation (albeit more permanent) occurred on National Forest land in Hyalite Canyon (think world class ice, Alex Lowe, Conrad Anker, etc...) a few seasons ago.
The local (Southwest Montana) climbing coalition released this statement:
http://montanaice.com/node/46
Fwiw, I have a long-term cache that has exceeded the requirements in a wilderness area, so I am no angel in this matter...but, what if more (and more) people took to our ways? Not so great in the end...
Jus' my opine...
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