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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 27, 2009 - 12:15am PT
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Below is a photograph of Camp 4 from 1967. I became involved with it as part of a discussion on whether the guy leaning against the left side of the tree was Frank Sacherer or not. I was able to obtain the photo thanks to the research and excellent memory of Steve Roper.
The photo is from the Saturday Review, Jan 1 1972, pg. 41
The Article in which it appears is titled, "National Parks:Pristine Preserve or
Popcorn Playgrounds?"
The Author is Gladwin Hill and the photographer, Bruce Davidson, of the Magnum Agency
The Saturday Review is defunct as are two successor magazines. Since Supertopo is non profit, the copywrite presents no problems. Bruce Davidson however, charges $100 for the use of his photo in any commercial endeavor.
The Photo Caption was: How do we get the schlock out?
In case you're not up on your Yiddish, the definition of a schlock is:
cheap, trashy, junky, evil, a nuisance, or a wretch
Obviously the image of climbers has improved since then, at least in Yosemite!
Meanwhile, can anybody tell me who these guys are? Better yet, can any of them identify themselves and remember if Sacherer was there that day or not?
Thanks! Jan
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 27, 2009 - 12:30am PT
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Here's a version with labels which might help match up names with photos:
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2009 - 12:34am PT
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Clint-
Leave it to your fine eye for detail to even notice that there's a head sticking out of the bag! Also, kudos for thinking of a numbering system!
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Fletcher
Trad climber
the end of the world as we know it, & I feel fine.
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Apr 27, 2009 - 12:36am PT
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That's a great photo... looking forward to learning who these schmendricks are. Schlock? What is that mishegos all about? Oy gevult!
Fletchnik
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tithaf
Trad climber
Colorado Plateau
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Apr 27, 2009 - 12:50am PT
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I'll send it to Dozier - he's not on ST but he soon will be -
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Apr 27, 2009 - 12:57am PT
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Funny, I was thinking about Jeff-he could identify a lot of these people, if not all.
Hello Jeff, hope all is well in Mammoth.
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yo
climber
I drink your milkshake!
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Apr 27, 2009 - 01:10am PT
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2 = John Wilkes Booth
3 = Coiler?
Real guess edit: 5 = Bonington/Chris Jones????
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Apr 27, 2009 - 01:14am PT
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Since when is supertopo a nonprofit?
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B-Dog
Trad climber
LOUISIANA
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Apr 27, 2009 - 01:18am PT
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1.Tom Frost?
8.Glen Denny?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2009 - 01:22am PT
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I could be wrong but so far I think everyone's guessing too early? In 1967, the young climbers were a group known to us old geezers as Bridwell's Boys.
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DrDeeg
Mountain climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Apr 27, 2009 - 02:30am PT
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The photo is pretty grainy, and I am getting old (but my season pass at Mammoth next year is 1/2 price, lifetime at the National Parks is $10). Here are my guesses (and believe me, they are all guesses):
1 - Jim Madsen
2 - Kim Schmitz
3 - Can't tell
4 - looks a little like Sacherer but I don't think so (wrong hair)
5 - looks familiar but I don't recall his name
6 - Dennis Hennek
7 - Eric Beck
8 - don't know, but definitely not Glen Denny
9 - can't tell
All these names were around in '67. I could do a better job with the original Sat Review article.
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TLloyd-Davies
Social climber
Santa Clara, ca
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Apr 27, 2009 - 02:59am PT
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Well, that photo is in a book I was just given for my birthday. "El Capitan: Historical Feats and Radical Routes" by Daniel Duane.
The title of the photo is: Frank Sacherer, Camp 4. It doesn't list any specific person just labels the photo.
Supposedly out the collection of Jim Bridwell, that's all the book says. Hope it can help a little.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Apr 27, 2009 - 03:06am PT
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#1 Boche? and not Madsen?
#2 Schmitz
#5 Kimbrough
#7Beck
#8 Sacherer?
Pretty grainy, will send if off to Boche and Hennek and Beck is probably lurking as I speak
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Apr 27, 2009 - 03:14am PT
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Jan,
I think I can safely say I knew the vast majority, or had
at least a passing acquaintance with most, of the individuals
who visited the Valley in those days.
However, there were plenty of odd souls and faces who drifted
in from the northwest or Wyoming and many places. And there
were lots of Californians who were simply faces of young
aspiring lads, classic "no-names." I was there
a whole lot in 1967, and the only two guesses so far that
seem feasible, the same names of which I too came to as possibilities, are the two on the far left, namely in foreground Jim Madsen, very possibly, and behind him,
also possibly, Kim Schmidz. The second one, because of
the hair, does look like Kim, but it's not certain. Jim
Madsen was rarely without his glasses. This fellow seems
not to wear glasses. The person identified possibly as Eric
Beck, well, again, Eric was rarely without his glasses. That
does not look like Eric to me. Nor did he so casually
find himself in a common photo or group setting...
It's entirely possible that not one of this group is
a name we would recognize. Sorry not to be of more help.
All the best,
Pat
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Banjo
Social climber
An edge...
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Apr 27, 2009 - 03:43am PT
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So, Patrick Oliver, all that was to say... "I don't know"?
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Apr 27, 2009 - 03:49am PT
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Explaining the reasons behind "I don't know" is helpful.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona, Spain
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Apr 27, 2009 - 03:49am PT
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Here's a shot of Frank Sacherer for comparison:
A match to #8?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2009 - 03:53am PT
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Dr. Deeg-
I have the original Saturday Review article but it doesn't deal with climbers per se. Rather, it is a philosophical piece on how over crowded and underfunded our National Parks are. The photo was included to show how degraded they had become?!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2009 - 10:41am PT
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McCreel-
Definitely not a match to # 8. The question in most people's mind is whether or not it is a match to #4. Several people who knew Sacherer have changed their minds back and forth on the issue several times. From the neck down it looks like him and the clothes he used to wear. Opinion varies on the face and hair do.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Apr 27, 2009 - 10:50am PT
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First, I commend Pat on his input. Knowing what something ISN'T is on the path of identifying what it IS.**
I sent this image to Barry Bates, Glen Denny, Steve Roper and Dean Caldwell. All were there at the time and had slightly different crowds they hung with. Hopefully between them we can get a few names nailed.
1967 is before my Ditch time but I feel I have a fair handle on history and my gut tells me these happen to be a collection of climbers in C4. No "names" just climbers.
By the way, the book TLloyd-Davies speaks of, Duane's "El Capitan: Historical Feats and Radical Routes" is well worth getting. You'll see some nice shots you haven't seen before.
** Yea, I can hear Werner now... we can never truly know what IS and ISN'T for presuming to know the ISN'T only darkens the IS.
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