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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 19, 2009 - 12:15pm PT
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Horrible.
But so are the abuses by Hamas.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 12:30pm PT
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Lame retort.
You know the "abuses"did occur and more to boot. It is S.O.P. for I.D.F.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 01:08pm PT
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What a double standard you are trapped in Jeff.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Mar 19, 2009 - 01:13pm PT
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"Medical authorities say more than 1,300 Palestinians were killed during Israel's 22-day operation, including some 440 children, 110 women, and dozens of elderly people.
The stated aim was to curb rocket and mortar fire by militants from Gaza. Thirteen Israelis, including three civilians were killed."
Is the above actually correct, corroborated by reliable 3rd part sources? Are we to understand that the killing ratio was basically 100 Palestinians to 1 Jew? How can this not be an internation outrage of the highest order if the above figures are remotely accurate.
I don't believe they are, lest the world would and should be up in arms. Has the UN taken a look at these shocking numbers, if in fact they are true?
JL
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 01:26pm PT
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Sadly it is not in error.
Statistically the death ratio is 4 Palestinians to 1 Israeli and that is every day without conflict. When the I.D.F. goes on attack the ratio regularly goes to 50 to 1. And when they invade like Gaza or Lebanon it skyrockets to 100 to 1. And that is not even considering the many massacres like Sabra and Shatilla. Which the propagandists have tried to present as having never happened. Do some honest research and you will find this to be true.
Additionally the total devastation of personal property is S.O.P. for the I.D.F. The will leave the survivors with nothing to collect water in.
And yes the world is up in arms. Except the US that is. We see this grave situation through a single myopia inducing lens.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Mar 19, 2009 - 02:05pm PT
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The beef is that the ratio of those who died is unfair? Or perhaps some deserve death more then others?
How about the first commandment? No takers these days? I'm not very religious, but that's a pretty good and clear commandment.
Don't kill- don't kill in defense?, don't kill unless someone stole from you?, don't kill unless the people trying to kill you have killed sufficient number to put the proper ratio out of balance?
Splitting hairs, I'm pretty sure that one means don't kill people period.
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Mar 19, 2009 - 03:01pm PT
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Fatty, what war?
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Mar 19, 2009 - 03:04pm PT
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ITS ALMOST LIKE HAMAS SHOULD STOP BOMBING ISREAL. ALMOST.
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Mar 19, 2009 - 03:16pm PT
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Are we sure the Hamas rockets aren't false flag operations? Israel's ultimate goal is to drive Palestinians from what remains of their land, so planting a few rocket launchers to occasionally fire some rockets into mostly unpopulated areas would seem a convenient excuse for continuing Israel's persecution of these people -- and the recent offensive was nothing more than that; beating a people down until they break.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 19, 2009 - 03:39pm PT
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After reading the "kill 'em all" comments on this thread, I think Randy Newman may have been on to something in his mid-70's satire song, "Political Science:"
No one likes us, Dont know why
May not be perfect, but heaven knows we try,
All around, even our old friends put us down,
Lets drop the big one, and see what happens.
We give them money, but are they grateful?
No! They're spiteful, and they're hateful.
They don't respect us, so let's surprise them.
Let's drop the big one, and pulverize them.
Asia's too crowded, Europe's too old.
Africa's far too hot and Canada's too cold.
South America stole our name.
Let's drop the big one, there'll be no one left to blame us.
(We'll save Australia.
Don't want to hurt no kangaroo
We'll build an all-American amusement park there.
They've got surfing, too.)
Boom goes London, Boom Paree!
More room for you and more room for me.
And every city, the whole world round,
Will just be another American Town.
Oh how peaceful it'll be!
We'll set everybody free.
There'll be a Japanese kimono, baby,
Italian shoes for me!
They all hate us anyhow,
So let's drop the big one now.
Let's drop the big one now!"
Repeat, changing the names to whoever you want to hate.
John
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Mar 19, 2009 - 04:36pm PT
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What may ultimately be perceived as the most important and insightful quote of the Modern Era:
"Can't we all just get along." R. King
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Mar 19, 2009 - 04:59pm PT
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Yes, and so did Socrates. The great ones always suffer for their insights.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Mar 19, 2009 - 05:12pm PT
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"The Israeli army has said it will investigate the soldiers' accounts"
yaa right
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 19, 2009 - 05:37pm PT
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I think they will.
I think they will whitewash it.
I don't condone it.
But I understand it.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Mar 22, 2009 - 02:37am PT
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How might the world react if the Palestinians invaded various Isralie enclaves and starting icing people at a rate of 100 to 1? Who would be talking about the Palrestinians as being anything but a slaughtering, punitive force?
Continuing this 100 to 1 ratio, how many raids would the world let go before responding. Would we simply just let it all go and let the two parties sort it out, talking to the Palestinians on occassion, but doing nothing directly to stop the carnage insisting that the Isralis brought it on themselves.
Somethig wrong with this picture . . .
JL
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Mar 22, 2009 - 09:31am PT
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Everybody knows that there is a blatant double standard. US allies can do what they want with impunity.
It's not just Israel. When Saddam was our ally, we let him do the worst killing of his rule without coming down on him.
We don't champion justice, merely expediency and the chess game of power and money
PEace
Karl
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Mar 22, 2009 - 10:38am PT
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For those of you who condone any sort of war crimes that any side carries out, shame on you.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Mar 22, 2009 - 10:43am PT
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Skip writes
"I for one am very glad the United States can tell the difference between a Democracy and the brutal thug dictatorships that show time and time again their willingness to not only kill people in their own country but create mayhem in their region and the world at large. "
You are glad for nothing bro. We have all kinds of brutal dictator thug allies, then and now. From the despots in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and so on, to China, and to torturers and human rights abusers in former Soviet Republics. Our friends are not chosen by virtue but by politics and power.
Even the countries most connected with 9-11, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, remain friends armed by the US, while Iraq and Afghanistan, which played a lesser or non-existent role, got invaded.
Israel creates all kinds of Mayhem in their region, you just chose to blame others. When we were buds with Saddam, we blamed Iran. (even as we sold them arms as well)
Wake up and spit out the kool aid. Don't even get me started about what we've done with "friends" in South America.
Peace
Karl
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