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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 18, 2009 - 02:49pm PT
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..and its also worthless.
Reducing our use of consumer products that are produced by CO2 releasing energy sources is less than useless when looked at globally.
Saw this recent satellite map of fires on the Earth.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff319/12eric/firemap2009061-20090702048x1024.jpg
Mostly started by people for cooking, warmth, light, and predator
protection.
This fire map accumulates the locations of the fires detected by MODIS on board the Terra and Aqua satellites over a 10-day period March 2009. Every 10 days a new map.
500 million fires? Maybe. Everyday. Made me laugh at the ridiculous idea that CO2 releases can be reduced.
And anyway the sun drives climate change not CO2.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2009 - 02:53pm PT
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The detectors in the satellites cannot see fires inside homes,
with smoke vented up chimneys, unless the viewing angle was exactly down the chimney with a view of the flames. So assume
there are many times the fires we see in this map.
Just saying CO2 reduction is hopeless.
Just think that while we slept last night another coal fired power plant probably came online somewhere in the world. It would not show up on this map either.
a link to a hi res image of the fire map
http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/firemaps/firemap.2009061-2009070.8192x4096.jpg
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Mar 18, 2009 - 03:08pm PT
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That's a really interesting map on many levels. The fire map.
The air travel one too!
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2009 - 03:11pm PT
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Awesome!
We better hope they are right that the sun drives climate change because nothing short on an asteroid collision is going to stop this.
edit - if we run out of wood to burn that would stop it. uh-oh!
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 18, 2009 - 03:45pm PT
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I'm sure your grandchildren will appreciate the fact that you are going to great lengths to do nothing to avert the climate change disaster.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Mar 18, 2009 - 03:57pm PT
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Chop that cornice off behind you and reduce our carbon load by one nihilistic CO2-spewing windbag.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2009 - 03:57pm PT
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dirt
I know you're serious but there is a good chance that the extra
CO2 will save our butts by moderating the global cooling
that's happening now.
If the sunspot numbers remain close to zero for the next several years we'll have an ice age.
Extra greenhouse gases will only help growing crops by keeping
the planet a little warmer.
Hungry screaming kids annoy like nothing else.
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2009 - 04:03pm PT
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DR - I'll belay you from the summit while you chop. Always a good vid when it lets go.
You can trust me to hold you. Promise.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Mar 18, 2009 - 04:08pm PT
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Some scientists have a hypothethis than human produced CO2 is causing "global warming". It has been anything but proven.
When they start consistantly nailing 24 hour weather reports then maybe I'll give them some credence. But, all they can do now is note that there has been a trend in global temperatures and produce a hypothethis that man made CO2 is the leading factor in that trend.
I could use a bit more of that global warming, it's been a more normal (i.e. cold) winter.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Mar 18, 2009 - 04:11pm PT
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ya'll's that haven't need to get off the term "Global Warming". It's "Global Climate Change".
If you don't believe it's real you should adopt "Global Climate Change" because it will give you more validity when discussing with the ones that know it to be the correct term.
If you do believe it's real you should adopt "Global Climate Change" because it will give you more validity when discussing with the ones that know it to be the correct term.
So no matter what your stance if you keep tossing around "Global Warming" you simply look out of touch with either side of the science.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Mar 18, 2009 - 04:12pm PT
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ANGRY HIPPIE ANGRY HIPPIE ANGRY HIPPY
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 18, 2009 - 04:14pm PT
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dr f - you reject the NASA data because it does not support your
views.
When was the last time you admitted to a mistake?
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hooblie
climber
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Mar 18, 2009 - 04:43pm PT
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there's a study under way, as reported in the ny times couple of weeks ago, that is trying to quantify the amount of greenhouse gases released by the thawing of permafrost across the arctic. the best approach is to inventory the bubbles of methane released and then trapped under the ice of frozen lakes in siberia. it is more difficult to measure the methane released in the tundra alongside the lake. the decomposition of organic matter previously held out of the accounting is on a scale that dwarfs any effect we might accomplish by lifestyle changes. it represents a contribution to a feedback loop that once triggered will overwhelm the current estimates of carbon release.
on an equally dreary note, i believe that every btu of hydocarbon that can be developed will be developed. the petroleum era will not end with sizable resources at hand if i know human nature.
consider that the first oil well was drilled by our great-grand parents, and that our grand children will live to see the endgame as the oil era plays out. i'm astounded to realize that in the context of the geologic timescale i personally laid eyes on every generation that participated in the transfer of the available carboniferous deposits from the earth to the sky.
let's redeem ouselves by designing and implementing a new, SUSTAINABLE (why is this just a word and not an organizing principle?) energy economy. we should go down swinging, and demonstrate that our time on the planet (as a species) has not been an abject blunder. at least we should veer toward an enlightened path. or even survive.
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dirtbag
climber
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Mar 18, 2009 - 04:44pm PT
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I agree with that photo.
Deniers are a bunch of baboons.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Mar 18, 2009 - 04:46pm PT
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OK Corniss, on belay? Got me?
Sorry about the flame job, but the good Dr. came along behind with the sobering facts I was thinking of. I came to your thread after spending a couple of hours contributing to a friend's blog about reducing our carbon footprint as climbers by driving more efficiently and flying less.
Did you check the air traffic link? I personally have not gotten on an airplane in over a year. I wanted to go climbing in Chattanooga this winter, but held off because of global warming. Last summer I went to Wisconsin and back by train. There is some multiplier of the greenhouse damage from injecting CO2 directly into the stratosphere where it does the most damage. Anyone here heard a number for that?
I'm trying, here. Actually sacrificing to lower the footprint. I'm teaching my kids that it matters.
So from where I sit, voting with my actual habits, MY carbon footprint is actually down. It's about 62 degrees in my house right now and I'm wearing a jacket as I type. The heater hasn't been on in days.
My kids are on the line here. If you have kids, my actions are helping their future. Please, you could do the same to help out.
I agree with you that the problem is mammoth. Titanic. And we haven't begun to budge it yet. BUT the global awareness is rising. People who care are starting to respond. Compact florescent lightbulbs -- got any? And LED lighting is on the horizon that's what? -- 3x better? My friend Bill has put his money where his heart is and installed a solar-panel roof. He did it before the current tax credits kicked in, because he knew it would help and he has kids too. I can't afford that yet, or even a house to put it on.
It's only hopeless if you give up.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Mar 18, 2009 - 05:30pm PT
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Inspiring post, DR. Thanks for that. You've encouraged me on a couple of fronts.
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just passing thru
climber
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Mar 18, 2009 - 05:49pm PT
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DR F you are the only idiot on this thread
Any person that declares a scientific hypothesis a closed case on a subject that we have only been studying for a very short time is not only a fool but also an obstructionist to the evolution of human intellect.
How does your resume compare to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_M._Gray
on this subject?
Oh Willliam must be paid by Exxon, right?
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