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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 3, 2009 - 11:14am PT
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Pakistan may need it's own little thread in the upcoming weeks. First there was the Red Mosque, then Mumbai, now this...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090303/wl_time/08599188274500
It's was nearly impossible now to get Cricket teams to play in Pakistan, now it will be.
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dirtbag
climber
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Pakistan is really the hotspot in this conflict.
Another place that will be a problem again in the near future is Somalia, especially as the Ethiopians pull out and the Fundamentalists take over.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2009 - 11:22am PT
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There are more insights here..
http://rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=264009&D=2009-03-03&SO=&HC=1
I agree, dirtbag. It's the ungoverned western areas though. Pakistan needs to reel these places in and get some law and order in place.
It ain't gonna be easy though.
Witnesses to the attack say the terrorists appeared to be Pashtuns (Western Paki/Eastern Afghani). Some are already saying India did it...whatever.
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dirtbag
climber
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Yep, I agree. Huge challenges lie there.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Why not check out the Central Asia Institute
http://www.ikat.org
It's Greg Mortenson's site and he actually knows what's
going on there. . .
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 9, 2009 - 06:20pm PT
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Truck bomb in Peshawar at the Pearl Continental Hotel.
http://rantburg.com/poparticle.php?ID=271585&D=2009-06-09
Apperntly we were in negotiations to use the compound as the new U.S. Embassy there. Guess it's not so secure of a building.
Of course if it were an embassy the security would be beefed up (I would hope).
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Note that they're attacking us more than we're attacking them. Also, had we isolated them in Afghanistan to begin with by going in with enough troops to seal the Pak border the Taliban wouldn't be raising hell in their new home.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 9, 2009 - 06:34pm PT
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The Taliban and their former incarnation of militants existed in Western Pakistan before we invaded Arghanistan. The Pakistani gov't ignored the problem in their own yard until it bit back at them.
Was the Bhutto assasination against 'us', the Red Mosque? Were the attempts on Musharraf?
Also, the Pakistanis won't let us pursue them into Pak, just drone attacks. And now they want some of our drones.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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The Pakistani govt/military has been sponsering terrorism for a long time. it was great fun to have terrorists hammering the Indian army in Kashmir or the Soviet army in Afghanistan. Now it has gotten out of control. Pakistan is one of the most dangerous countries in the world.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Bluey,
AP has it right. The Pakis were one with the mujahedeen vs the Soviets from the get-go. Their ISI (CIA) trained and ran the muj with our and the Saudis' money. The muj were getting their asses handed to them by Ivan until Charlie Wilson fell in love with Zia ul Haq and the muj. Charlie Wilson, a Democrat with our money, single-handedly turned them from a 19th century bunch of brigands with Royal Enfields into a 20th century bunch of brigands, albeit with a cause, with satcoms and Stingers.
Because he could see no further than gaining a measure of revenge against Ivan for his support of the North Vietnamese we are now in the mess we are and Pakistan is on the verge of being a nuclear Somalia. We would all be a lot better off if we'd let well enough alone and let Ivan have Afghanistan.
Obama's 'troop surge' will only keep the Taliban in Pakistan until we leave. They will simply wait us out like they have always done. It is what they do; they're warriors. They took horrific losses against Alexander, the Brits, and Ivan and kept on coming. Who are we to think they will suddenly throw in the towel and become nice little democrats? They have known nothing else for 2000 years. They know they're gonna get an eternity of nookie if they die trying so what's not to like?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 9, 2009 - 07:59pm PT
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They took horrific losses against Alexander, the Brits, and Ivan and kept on coming. Who are we to think they will suddenly throw in the towel and become nice little democrats? They have known nothing else for 2000 years. They know they're gonna get an eternity of nookie if they die trying so what's not to like?
Precisely the point of the CoC, no? They will never stop in their drive to submit as many as possible to Sharia. We try to promote peaceful democracy and cooperation. Yeah, sometimes with bombs, but we only strive for peace amongst all.
When there was a void in Afghanistan, they moved in from Pakistain.
They are incompatible with 90% or the world's views and thinking.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Bluey, I guess I was just saying it wasn't that "The Pakistani gov't ignored the problem" it was/is the problem. Zia ul Haq initiated Sharia in Pakistan in December of '78. The ISI is known to be very sympathetic to the Taliban as they basically created it with our money. The moderate educated class in Pakistan is hosed. Just a matter of time. We are wasteing our money supporting them.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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I went there once. We got stuck in the north because some group or another took over the main highway until they were routed by the military. Terrorism and violence were daily occurrences in Kashmir. The government had lost control of the territories. Snipers were shooting people every day in Karachi. No one in the west gave a shite until after 9/11. It's not worse or better, it just is. We can't fix their problems.
Aside from all of that it was a great country with friendly folks. Also the purdiest place I ever seen, but you'd better like mutton.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 9, 2009 - 08:35pm PT
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The moderate educated class in Pakistan is hosed. Just a matter of time. We are wasteing our money supporting them.
Isn't this the general problem with Iran too? The leaders manipulate the easily maleable to do their deeds.
OTE makes the same point. Most of the country is cool. But there is a vast region of chaos and no former gov't authority or rule of common law.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Jun 10, 2009 - 04:21am PT
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bump for no climbing content
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Chinchen
climber
Flagstaff?
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Jun 25, 2009 - 09:25pm PT
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And we discuss this from our comfy chairs in our comfy computer rooms in our comfy houses in a nice neighborhood...
Why waist your time? What are you REALLY going to do about it....
I'm so cynical these days.
Ive been to Africa. I have seen the starving masses. I just get angry when we armchair quarterback the fuked up state of the world.
In the end America has no meaning. We are so isolated and insulated.
Cant we just talk about climbing?
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quietpartner
Trad climber
Moantannah
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The Paks will never get serious about whacking the Taliban, because they don't like killing brother Muslims.
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