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toyon
climber
davis, ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 14, 2005 - 05:32pm PT
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seems like we've all got stories about dogs at the base of crags, on climber trails, and whatnot. most of these are not pleasant stories, but its seems like whenever i suggest that dogs should not be allowed at crags, all i get are situational justifications about how "my dog..." would act.
how do climbers who own dogs consider whether to bring them (aside from legal restrictions)?
specifically, are there any dog owners that would support a ban on dogs at the base of Lover's?
(full disclosure, i hate dogs, or rather they hate me - bitten 3 times, unprovoked. but i'm sure your dog wouldn't do that sort of thing...)
-st
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 14, 2005 - 06:00pm PT
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I love dogs, but they have a place, and the crags ain't it. Want to do something fun with your dog? Skip the crags and go hiking instead.
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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Jun 14, 2005 - 06:23pm PT
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My bulldogs aren't allowed anywhere near the crag.Rockfall,distractions,barking,trying to climb the rock; pose extra danger to others.rg
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smidogg
Trad climber
berkeley
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Jun 14, 2005 - 06:24pm PT
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I was at Mortar Rock in Berkeley Last week and I saw a Pit bull attack and almost kill another dog that was tied to a tree. The one dog was bleeding profusely from the neck and ears. I estimate no less that 30 stitches.
Both dogs belonged to climbers
Sad
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Jun 14, 2005 - 06:28pm PT
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I took my dog to the crag because I could not leave him at home for more than five hours alone. He'd pee on the carpet or worse. My wife was camping so I got to dog-sit. I left him tied to a tree for the day and I rapped down immediately when someone else came near.
I also think it sucks when someone elses dog gets in my way but maybe the dog bothers you because he's a dog? Or does the dog actually do something that is a real danger or annoyance?
Dave
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Bilbo
Trad climber
Truckee
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Jun 14, 2005 - 06:29pm PT
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I love dogs, they are great companions, however, if you have no immediate control of your pet (tied up or not) because your 100 feet up a wall, that is wrong.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jun 14, 2005 - 06:35pm PT
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I think the biggest problem is you don't know what to expect from unfamiliar dogs. The other thing is that people can have strange, enmeshed relationships with pets, and expect you to compensate for their dog, like walking around or doing this and not doing that and all of a sudden we're all having to change our behavior over some hound. "You should have known better" are thelast words off the lips of the person punched by someone who got bit by their dog.
I love dogs, have a dog, and he's my best friend, but I'd never make folks alter their conduct in order to allow my dog more freedom.
JL
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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Jun 14, 2005 - 06:37pm PT
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I have several dogs,& I hate it when people have untrained & unleashed dogs running loose around the crags.It's disrespectful to others.Some people are scared of dogs & can't handle how most dogs say hello.Run up too you bark, & growl, & then want to smell your ass.I understand this & keep my bulldogs @ home.rg
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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Jun 14, 2005 - 06:40pm PT
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re."specifically, are there any dog owners that would support a ban on dogs at the base of Lover's?
I guess you're assuming climbers should have the right to regulate who has access to the base of Lover's Leap?
I don't bring my two dogs to Lover's for many of the reasons already stated but I wouldn't support a ban. What if a non-climber decides to take his dog for a walk at Lover's Leap. Why should you as a climber be able to tell this person that they're not allowed to walk a dog where you're climbing? Climbers don't own Lover's Leap. It's National Forest land isn't it?
Most open spaces that allow off leash dogs require that they be under voice command at all times. I suspect that's exactly what's not happening when a dog is tied up while there owners are climbing a multi pitch route.
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smokin_nolens
Social climber
California Valley, California
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Jun 14, 2005 - 06:53pm PT
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3 dogs, no kids.
As my ex-landlady once said, "I'd rather have children with four legs, than animals with two feet."
I totally agree that dogs are not to everyones' taste or liking. My dogs are well-trained & well-liked, but I don't bring them along to Nat'l Parks, Wilderness areas, or most public places where they can be a problem.
That said, we have taken them to Yosemite & J-Tree, where they are well-managed and babysat by other climbers, who take the job seriously. I have a huge 'Thank-you' to those that have in the past! We have never left them unattended, anywhere, for anytime. (That tends to attract 'the man', and also, it is cruel.))
When we decided to have 3 dogs, we also made the commitment to have enough land or property to support 3 dogs. Make responsible decisions and stick to them.
Woof!
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bwancy1
Trad climber
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Jun 14, 2005 - 07:01pm PT
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Some dick at the Leap this weekend had his dogs running around the campground rushing and growling at campers (Yes, one dog with one eye, and one with the ridgeback...you know who you are f*#kwad). Then they tied the dogs to a tree near the trail to East wall so that their dogs could lunge at everyone passing, and threaten other dogs. Everyone at the Leap got to enjoy the sound of them barking all day Saturday. As we were packing to leave, one rushed my buddy again in the parking lot. When he confronted the owner, the guy said that he shouldnt have been vibing the dog. Give me a break. Their excuse was that other people had dogs too. All he needed to say was "sorry, Ill make sure to keep them on a leash." The genius never got that the other dogs were at least friendly, leashed, and under control.
Ultimately I feel bad for the dogs...I was able to slightly get to know them (careful petting) and they seemed like nice dogs once they get to know you. They probably really enjoy being out with their masters spending the weekend (though I doubt that dogs enjoy being tied up all day). But all it takes is for them to bite one person and they will get taken away, good dog or not...Or attack another poor dog tied up...or get attached while tied up...or get lost. I would never endanger my dogs like these dildos. I would be devastated if anything happened to them. I leave mine at home and give them a long walk when I get back.
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DOR
Trad climber
NV.
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Jun 14, 2005 - 07:16pm PT
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I would support banning dogs at any crag, period. I have never
had a day of climbing that was enhanced by the presence of dogs.
I climb at Red Rock, and Mt Charleston mostly. The dog issue is
out of control, as most owners completly ignore the rules and regs. reguarding dogs. Let me say that I do not hate dogs, I love them, I have 2 living with my family and they bring lots of joy to our home. That said, I think it would be cruel to take my guys climbing and have to tie them up. It would also be wrong to let them run around. I've been climbing for over 25 yrs. and have reached the point that I don't put up with it anymore. I tell owners, without hesitation, that their animal is not welcome
and any problems or BS with the dog will result in a swift and harsh course of action.
I don't really care about training, breed charactoristics, or any other lame excuses most owners use to explain the dog's behavior. I let the owner know that I have pepper spray, and will use it to keep their animal out of my space. This is how I deal when I was there 1st, if they were there 1st I go else where. This works so well that I have only had to mace one dog.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Jun 14, 2005 - 07:17pm PT
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I mentioned in an earlier post that I rapped down when someone came to where I was climbing. I should have mentioned that I was on a 30 foot rock doing top rope solo climbing. It took about 15 seconds for me to reach the ground before the people arriving even got to my dog. I then checked to see if they cared about him. If they did have a problem, I think I would have left.
The dog is truly trame and will lick any stranger or other dog. Or he will just lay there looking sad.
Sorry that some dog owners are jerks. Some people play their tunes too loud at the campgrounds. Some people cuss profusely in front of my child. Some people just suck. That's life.
Dave
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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Jun 14, 2005 - 07:28pm PT
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Remember, when any breed of dog bites a person or another dog it will be labeled a pit bull(APBT).Media sensationalism.There are 20 breeds of dogs that look identical to APBT.A recent case where a "100 lb pit bull mauled a 12 year old child over a dog in heat".I feel for this childs family!!But APBT do not weigh over 75 lbs.The breeds standards are 25-75 pounds anything over that will have mostly Mastiff or TOSA-INU blood.APBT are dog aggressive not people.Bad dogs aren't born; they are raised wrong.Sorry for the rant.Please keep all dogs out of the crags.rg
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jun 14, 2005 - 08:47pm PT
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the real problem w/ climbers and their dogs is that most climbers aren't lucky enough to have my dog...
=)
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slobmonster
Trad climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 14, 2005 - 08:55pm PT
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bwancy1 wrote: "When he confronted the owner, the guy said that he shouldnt have been vibing the dog."
I was camping in the site next to the 2 guys you mention, and there dogs, and had no problem at all. They were indeed enthusiastic, younger dogs, and it's unfortunate that they were "howling" and making noise, but they were tied up significantly off-trail. No climber or hiker had any need to go near them. In the campground they rambled around a little bit, but basically stayed at their owners' site.
Of course, I had my own dog with me most of the weekend. She's a fairly mellow golden retriever, sleeps on my pack when I'm up on a route, and doesn't make a peep. Would I support a ban on dogs at Lover's Leap? Hell no. It's one of very few crags to which I can take my dog. I bag her poop (just like at the dog park downtown), I keep her leashed when appropriate, and other times let her roam a little, always within sight. If she gets a little ornery, barks excitedly, or starts begging, she's tied up immediately.
Sorry you had a bad experience. It seems that criticizing --with anger-- someone's dog ownership can be akin to questioning someone's parenting. Might make you feel better about having expressed yourself, but nothing is likely to come of it.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 14, 2005 - 09:02pm PT
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Aw bullshit landcruiserbob, Pitbulls are involved in more fatal dog bites than any other breed.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Chatsworth
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Jun 14, 2005 - 09:19pm PT
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I always try to provoke the dog so I am bitten. In La Canada one dog bit is worth 100K.
Juan
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Ouch!
climber
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Jun 14, 2005 - 09:21pm PT
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Pitbulls should be exterminated and their owners fixed so they can't reproduce. There is no valid reason whatsoever to subject the public to the maulings and deaths. Famous last words, "Why that sweet thing never killed a kid before."
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 14, 2005 - 09:24pm PT
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So we were dancing around one day in Eldorado canyon circa early 1970’s, Kauk, Bachar, myself, Westbay, Pettigrew, and others. I spot this big ass dog tied up to a pole and decide to go over and pet him. He was tied up with a chain of some sort and the owners pack was with him too. He’s watching me approach, as I get within 5 feet of him he starts to get that look in his eyes. Yea, that look that says you’re dust dude, ha ha ha.
I go oh sh_it and start to back peddle just as he starts lunging for my juggler veins teeth and all in my face. Unfortunately when that beast came to the end of that chain it broke.
He sinks those big ass teeth into my thigh till it drew blood. He then runs off scared as hell because he knew he did bad. Not his fault though as I am the village idiot who went over there where I didn’t belong.
So Bachar and Kauk tell me I should get a blood test to make sure that dog didn’t have rabies. WTF I knew it didn’t. So we all troop down to the rabies testing center and they do their thing. They tell me they’ll call back later with the results.
We go back to the house we were staying and a couple of hours later Bachar and Kauk tell me the animal control people called and said the dog has rabies and I need to get shots and treatment. Holy, moly that didn’t sound good at all and now I’m scared sh-itless. Jim Pettigrew says get in the car and we’ll take you over there to die, Ha ha ha..
As were driving down the road for a while Bachar, Kauk and Pettigrew keep telling me how much my chances of living through this will be. Now I’m even more scared sh itless, untill they couldn't hold it in any longer and they all start busting up laughing their asses off.
That’s when I realized they took me to the cleaners and I fell for it.
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