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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 9, 2008 - 09:06pm PT
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So, I have done numerous bolt-free first ascents in the alpine, and rap bolted several crag routes with powerdrills (mostly other peoples' that I borrowed), and hand drilled one bolt at a crag (one was enough).
Now I'm looking at a nice unclimbed line in a valley not far from home. Probably about a dozen pitches long, slabs, in the 5.8 to 5.9 range, some features but lots of crackless friction. I expect it will take some gear but probably need at least 10 bolted belays plus two to four bolts per 60m pitch to supplement what gear may exist.
My old Bulldog gave up the ghost a couple years ago and I just replaced it with a brand new Li-Ion battery Bosch. I am psyched to try this new line ground up and bolt it on the lead, but I have never powerdrilled on lead before and so I am looking for tips from the experienced climbers on SuperTopo.
* What is the best way to carry the drill? Hang it off the harness, or in some sort of quick-release holster or backpack, or leave it hanging below you and drag it up on a tag line when you need it?
* Even if drilling free from a good stance it seems like a hook or two and a fifi for quick attachment might be useful?
* What about falling with a powedrill? It might not be entirely preventable, loose rock, crumbling nubbin underfoot or a simple misstep while runout could always happen. Is a sliding slab fall going to wreck my new toy?
* Is running it out bolt-free to the next ledge or feature, bolting an anchor, then lowering or rapping back down the pitch just climbed in order to add one or more bolts, a compromise in style or not?
There are probably other issues I haven't thought of. Suggestions?
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xtrmecat
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Does this have anything to do with the pics I posted last week? I bumped my TR back up and asked you for a tip or two from you. Hope you do not mind a hijack, but I cannot find the online info you mentioned no matter how many hours I spend. Probably wrong keywords.
And now back to the bolting action. By the way what is the BC ethic on FA bolting in a Provintial Park? Hand only or is power drilling acceptable?
Bob
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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It is refreshing to read that you will be going ground-up.
I like to hang the rotohammer from the right side of my harness, with the bit pointing slightly downward, maybe 20 degrees.
You could make a custom cover from leather, nylon, or vinyl clad nylon fabric. This will protect the drill and have a top strap which will allow you to postion it from your harness. Some folks just tie webbing around the rotohammer to make a secure cradle.
Be sure that you always have a leash attached between your rotohammer and harness. Given that you will be climbing under 5.10, and on slab, I'd suggest that you attach it to your harness waist belt, with the carabiner gate open (you will have the redundant leash). You will want to be able to make a clean, one-handed grag for the drill when you reach the stance. No need to hang it from a fifi or mess with a tag line. Just climb with it. You should be able climb almost at your upper limit in that style.
Think in advance, about which way you will turn during a fall to avoid bashing your drill or jamming the bit into your femoral artery. After drilling the hole, the SDS bit will be hot, so proper positioning will keep the bit away from your leg and rope.
I have "retrobolted" my own routes, during the FA as you suggest, particularly on easier routes. I don't consider it cheating, as long as the intial ascent was ground-up. A strategy to save stance time and battery power is to install 1/4" bolts and then rap or come back another day to replace them with big bolts.
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socalbolter
Sport climber
Silverado, CA
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Also, once your hole is about an 1 1/2" or so into the rock, you can clip a draw onto the bit (right close to the rock surface) and "rest" (shake out your calves etc.) by grabbing onto the draw.
You say you'll be bolting on slabby terrain, so it should be easy to keep the biner against the rock.
Also once the hole is full-depth, you can clip yourself into a draw in the same manner and get your bolt set-up ready for install. This way you pull out the drill, hammer the bolt home, and clip your rope into the new bolt before tightening. Least exposure to a fall this way.
I would second that running it out and then lowering back down to install interim bolts is kosher. It also allows you to verify the line of climbing and the best placement for the bolts after having actually climbed through the terrain instead of guessing which way you'll be heading after the bolt in question if you were to drill them all as you went, having never climbed the sequences.
Best of luck and enjoy the experience. I've bolted many routes on rappel, but those I've done on the lead stand out brightest in my memory.
 Louie
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Old&InTheWay
Trad climber
NC
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Find a good drilling stance with maybe a hook or body weight gear to boot. Aiders can help alot even on slabs if a hook is good. Use an adjustable daisy. Look around for options. Relax! Really think about the best spot for the bolt before drilling. Maybe you can climb higher to a better spot. Short runouts can be fun. Pull up your rig and drill away. Clean the hole with a blow tube and round brush. Don't be afraid to drill with your non-dominant arm in order to get the bolt where it should be. Take a 1/4 inch bit and bathook incase you need to hook to get a bolt high enough (much better than a bolt ladder coz u can fill in the hole).
Drilling rig:
Use a tag line to haul your drill and keep a fifi on the drill to hook on the next to the last bolt. This way you don't have to haul the drill so far when you get to the next drilling stance. If you can't find a custom haul sack for the drill, duct tape and pieces of 2 liter plastic bottles can serve as ok armor. Considering having a smart and crafty electrician to rig your drill with a remote battery. This will lighten the actual drill by several pounds and make drilling above your head in a sketch stance lots easier. Have fun.
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T Moses
Trad climber
Paso Robles
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Sep 10, 2008 - 01:00am PT
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Rig a hook to hang it on.
I hang mine from a full gear harness off the left side so I can cross draw it with the right hand. Have your bolts and hanger combo already put together. I use a "monkey Paw" of tools on one leash to simplify things.
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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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Sep 10, 2008 - 01:12am PT
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Bump for TM, the clip on drill is the thing. I once used a holster but the clip is much better.
Nice to hear you're into ground up.
And I hear you the older I get hand drilling is less appealing.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Sep 10, 2008 - 01:23am PT
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Not matter how you look at it...it's a pain in the ass. I just completed a new 5.12- in the Splatte...My thoughts on it...bring a haul line, clip the Bosch with a hook on the last bolt you placed and haul it up and whip the mother in as fast as possible...take Louie's advice and use a quickdraw or a hook over the bit.
The Bosch is a weapon ready to impale your ass if you fall with it...hot metal and long falls make for a dangerous situation.
I think it is almost better to bring a hang drill, do quarter inch short bolts then go back and replaced them with 3/8.
I also have bat hooked and then hammer on the hook to make it secure and stood on the top rung to get the bolt high.
That said...maybe just do it from the top down and get it right the first time around.
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:04am PT
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Hello? Did anyone read the OP?
"...a dozen pitches long, slabs, in the 5.8 to 5.9 range..."
The posts after Socalbolter (Louie) are giving advice like it's near-vertical 5.11.
Oplopanax,
You don't need no stinkin' hooks, etriers, or bathooks on a 5.9 slab. Two of the posts are suggesting that you use artificial assistance on the stances. That would make your FA an aid route. You can always free it later, but is that the style you want to use on a 5.8/5.9 slab?
Climb with the drill on your harness and place your bolts on lead, and without hooks. Anything else and it's what Bob said: "...maybe just do it from the top down and get it right the first time around."
When you do an FA, it's your reputation on the line. Do it in proud style!
Below is a protective cover for a Bulldog that I mentioned in the previous post. Hooking the carabiner over your harness waist belt, just behind the hip bone, will aim the bit slightly down and to the side.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2008 - 11:57am PT
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Thanks for the suggestions everyone, some good tips here. Keep 'em coming!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Nutsonthechin, Wisconsin
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Sep 10, 2008 - 01:09pm PT
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Too bad you have the new battery attached model. I like the 50' cord connected to batteries in a pack below. Much lighter and easier for ground up stuff.
Climb, drill, put in bolt, haul up pack with battery and more bolts, hook on bolt, run it out 50ft, drill, put in bolt, haul up pack..... repeat.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
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Sep 10, 2008 - 01:20pm PT
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I've been using Russ's method lately, and it works well especially on steep stuff but it takes some getting used to, having electrical cords plus ropes etc.
I have also used the "leave it on the last bolt and pull it up on a zip line" method a lot over the years. You can actually have a zip line run from the drill through a biner on your harness and back to your belayer so if the sh*t hits the fan you can toss the drill and theoretically your belayer will catch it. You can make a nice hook rig out of a welding rod and heat shrink tubing which will not come off the bolt or hang up either:
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Nutsonthechin, Wisconsin
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Sep 10, 2008 - 01:26pm PT
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Kris: to keep the cluster under control, you can use the extension cord as your trail line, and haul your batterypack setup through one of those mini hauler rigs. I have an old Ushba one with a cam in it (maybe Ti too?) that is tiny. Then you just have the lead line and an extension cord trail line.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
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Sep 10, 2008 - 01:43pm PT
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Ahh. Sounds like a plan...
Too bad you weren't around to see one of my buddies get on some route out in the desert leading with double ropes, a zip line and the extension cord running down to the atom smasher, all twisted up in a big snarlfest. I thought he was going to hang himself or something. We were cracking up! Shoulda taken pics...
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Scott_Nelson
Trad climber
San Diego
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Sep 10, 2008 - 01:54pm PT
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If the climbing is really hard and there's no hooks or stances, you can drill bathook holes and aid up, then fill the holes in later.
If you don't like this style I think the next best option is to rap-bolt (if possible).
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
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Sep 10, 2008 - 02:06pm PT
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I think it is best to free climb up to where you want to place the bolt, more likely it will be in a nice spot to clip etc. If you have to drill a bat hook, make it shallow, and drill the real bolt right above it so the hanger covers the hole.
I supppose if the route is so hard you have to aid it or project it then you might as well rap it in. Personally, I'll go find another route at that point (I've done up to .12+ on lead and it was great fun.)
edit: I do wish someone made shorter sds bits. That would be nice.
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Sep 10, 2008 - 03:48pm PT
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I've been thinking for some time it'd be super smart if someone designed some sort of retracting plastic cover or sleeve for the drill bit, that would somehow attach to the drill, so as to prevent the likelihood of a hot bit burning your leg or rope. Anyone seen this done before? If not, I own the patent! :)
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 10, 2008 - 04:18pm PT
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Climbimng with a 10lb drill hanging off your ass just totally sucks!! Tag line is the way to do it.
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tiki-jer
climber
fresno/clovis
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:17pm PT
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Your right it does suck TradMan. I've pulled up a drill on a tagline too. However it could knock you off your stance if'n your not hooked in an all. I still prefer to have it on me for when I need it. My Bosch is cooked and new batteries are not available, so I think I'll modify like Juan did.
Kris, I've seen pics of your setup before and have made a similar model...however have not yet employed the thing
I hear Barry Chambers does a similar thing.
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tiki-jer
climber
fresno/clovis
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:21pm PT
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Nate......next time lets bring up some HotDogs to cover the hot SDS drill bit. That way we have the "What to Eat on a Wall" thing covered too!
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