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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 6, 2008 - 04:45pm PT
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A woman writes into an advice columnist, Carolyn Hax
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/Style/232926/
The woman was with her husband at a small party with friends. During a conversation, one of the other husbands comments that he really liked looking at her body. Nothing more along those lines was stated further. Later her own husband was angered when informed of the comment.
Carolyn's advice was to tell the guy to “Buzz off!” or otherwise express displeasure at such an inappropriate and brazen remark. Carolyn then questions the womans character and motives for having to ask advice rather than instantly rebuff the man.
My questions may seem obtuse, but I hope it starts an interesting conversation. Hoping to get comments from both men and women.
What is offensive about such a remark? “I enjoy looking at your body.” What would a woman rather have a man say. Would she prefer that he not enjoy looking at her body? Would she prefer that he not look at her at all? Would she prefer that he enjoy looking at her body but not admit to it? Would she prefer that he compliment her without using the term, “body”?
Thoughts? Experiences?
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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My ten foot cheat stick would have to get upgraded before I touched that hot potato!
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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is that like saying:
you sure got a purty mouth
?
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
Meyers,CA
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I went out to see some music last night, Amye was tired and was content to hang back and chill. I was having fun and boogied my butt off. I saw her being hit on, checked out, etc..
At the end of the night, who did she go home with?
To compliment a woman in an appropriate manner is just fine in my book.
To say 'I like looking at your body' may cross the line for some, but I know my lady would take it as a compliment and feel that much more frisky when we got home...
Just saying.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Its creepy. Some things are fine to think but not fine to say.
So creepy.
I mean, the dude knew she was married, and WAS married. Its not the same as hitting on some girl alone at a nightclub. Ugh.
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coldstonesoup
Mountain climber
outside the taco stand
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I once got cold cocked by this prick because I asked him why he wasn't dancing with his "lovely" wife. Apparently it was over the line.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Paul,
It all depends on the situation - whether such a remark is acceptable or not. Maybe you should (re?)read Civilization and its Discontents. As humans, we have a sex drive, find certain things attractive, but to get along with each other, we suppress saying certain things, such as a sexual interest in a person married to someone else.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization_and_Its_Discontents
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
Meyers,CA
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See, to me marriage is a piece of paper and a ring, not a reflection of commitment. I am, and have been, fully commited to my partner for years now. I still do not mind a random dude complimenting or hitting on my lady. It's called trust.
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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I suppose the reaction I would have to someone telling me that would depend entirely on who said it and how they said it although I can see how it might be contrued as a bit over the line, especially if the dude knows you're married. It's all about the context.
Edit: SS has a point, I wasn't thinking about the dude being married himself, in which case it's sorta creepy.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Totally depends on the context.
How was it deliverd?
How well did they know each other? etc, etc?
could go either way.
"in an appropriate manner,"...
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
sunlight on the surf
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ewwww
dunno tho, wasn't there. was he muddled by alcohol??? is she unhappy in her marraige???
i think ms. hax addressed the comment appropriately. don't really have anything more to add. we don't really know the context.
i personally would have been pissed at a married man saying that to me in ANY situation. would have deflected the comment instantly. i wouldn't accept that from a married man at all, single or no. you don't like your wife, leave her, do your own thing and get back at me then, but don't give me bullsh*t lines / excuses when you're involved in a commitment to someone else.
also, this comment isn't in response to the OP's question, but is just a tangent: men are more visual than women. they check ladies out all the time. doesn't mean they would follow thru on hooking up.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
sunlight on the surf
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btw: context is everything. i have big boobs and get compliments on them from men AND women regularly. it's usually harmless and funny
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
Meyers,CA
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Yeah, SS. I agree that a hitched dude should not act that way. Kinda missed that part in my post.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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If you actually go and read the article, you will see the woman (with the body to look at) says this, "my husband later said that I shouldn’t have allowed him to talk to me that way, and that if it happens again and I don’t put him in his place, he will."
I have more an issue with his response than anything else I read. Sounds kind of like a controlling prick with a chip on his shoulder to me. It's certainly not even a remotely adult response.
I'd agree that the rest depends on context, which wasn't stated in the article.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there... say, i reckon i kind of go with what jaybro said, so i'll state it in this way:
there is a lot of:
who, what, where, when, and the hows (as to facial manerisms and body stance, etc, and how public all is said and done, according to the crowd in the room, etc) that dictate the true "whys" as to why these comments are made...
for the most part, from observing group get-togethers, social function, with or without alchohol, etc---there are bad undertones as to a married man speaking that way to a married gal... and i have "counsoled many a gal" as to the aftermath of such, which at first seemed harmless....
however, many at time, not in view of the marraige situations, all is in clean simple compliments and shared as such, without overstepping boundries of respect, and many folks can see that, though again---depending on the etc...
but then again, when dealing with the "feelings" that can go with ones "lookings" whether one chooses to speak it to a gal or not (or visa verse)(spell?)----its that ol':
who, what, where and when, that are the "give-aways", if one takes heed a mite.... hopefully then, any overstepping "whys" can be settled as adults.... (unless one is drunk, which can be very hard, or if one has obsessive troubles)...
very sad, though, that simple "artistic appreaciation" (due to folks being so complex in nature) has to be "causiouly analyzed" ....
wow, no wonder we love flowers, nature-views, and critters.... they are such set-apart beauty that bring simpler notations of "even keels" in the action-reaction department....
welllllllllllll, unless we disrespect THIS too, and admire a bee, poison ive, or a tricky ledge, in an unthinking way....
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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I didn't read the article but do agree the husband's "If you don't...I will" remark is pretty gross. It sounds like a guy who is insecure. Wonder how he would react if the tables were turned(a girl flirts with him, and when he mentions it to his wife later and she says she doesn't like it).
I have had plenty of guys say similar things. Usually it's either a clumsy attempt to flirt or they are drunk and clueless that they are being lecherous.
Some guys can get away with being inappropriate. Well....actually who HASN'T been inappropriate - man or woman - at least a few times in their social interactions!
But it depends on the receiver and the receivee. I'm more apt to be grossed out when the line comes from someone I'm not attracted to than someone I do have an attraction to(whether either of us is available to act or not). And it's really gross when I'm not attracted, and I rebuff the advance and they don't get it and keep trying.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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The woman didn't complain about the comment, her husband did. The problem here is between the woman and her husband. He wants her to say something that she isn't comfortable saying. That is why she is writing in asking for advise.
"DEAR CAROLYN: My husband and I attended a party with several friends. During a conversation, one of the men commented to me that he really liked looking at my body. Nothing more was said at the time, but my husband later said that I shouldn’t have allowed him to talk to me that way, and that if it happens again and I don’t put him in his place, he will. I enjoy his wife and don’t want to damage the relationship. If he makes another comment, how should I handle it?"
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
Meyers,CA
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Take the compliment and keep your knucklehead husband out of the loop. God, just be flattered and zip your lips.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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My wife is thrilled when someone compliments her. We live in a gay community, so sometimes compliments are hard to come by. She could parade down our street in nothing but heals and the only compliment she would hear is "nice shoes".
I like looking at your body is a corney remark, but I guess better than I like looking at your ta ta's.
Men hit on Valerie on occasion, only once did I have to make a phone call to an overly agressive shopper.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
sunlight on the surf
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this thread's title reminds me of an ee cummings poem - see link
"i like my body when it is with your"
http://www-scf.usc.edu/~thier/ee/#mybody
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