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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 23, 2008 - 02:18am PT
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As many of us are explorers and have vee-hickels for such endeavors, this seems on topic. Just Saturday I checked out a 4x forest service road that I was never able to before in my 2x. But I really don't know the limits of my 4x4 truck.
To that end, Moosie posted up his 'kit' in DMT's recent TR.
-trifold shovel
-Tow strap
-Rope
-steel fence post ( cut down to fit in a plastic bin, 3 or 4 lengths)
-blocks of wood for tire jack, soft stuff doesn't support a jack
-hand axe
-bow saw
I'm pretty much sold on getting a 'kit' together. Just in case. I've high centered my old 2x truck on snow.
So my kit will likely include going forward...
-trifold shovel (need to buy)
-1" tubular webbing (is a tow strap really needed?)
-Rope (hrm, hate to sacrifice a climbing line, but if it's that bad?)
-steel fence post (hrm, not sure about this)
-blocks of wood (really smart idea)
-hand axe (got one already - gerber makes a fine axe blade)
-bow saw (hrm, how big is this? will it still fit in a box?)
My best 4x trick nowawdays is to avoid driving on snow that is still frozen. I haven't done it yet, but I don't have chains for the 4x. I understand that if you're on ice, you could theoretically get stuck if all 4 are on ice? True or not True?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 23, 2008 - 02:26am PT
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I keep multiple tire pumps, a patch kit, a spare shovel, a prybar, baling wire, duct tape, fuses, oil, coolant, hose clamps, flares, come-along, chicken wire, second bottle jack,
yada
yada
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 23, 2008 - 02:28am PT
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(most people are loath to let down their tires, but you get better traction and a softer ride)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2008 - 02:30am PT
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seems there are a number of baja tacos that keep a compressor for refilling the air after doing a let out.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jun 23, 2008 - 02:37am PT
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A compressor could get heavy and awkward, but an air tank on the other hand....
Oh yeah, and tire chains.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2008 - 02:40am PT
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what about those mini compressors you can get at Wal Mart, etc?
plug and play into the lighter? Worth a crap?
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 23, 2008 - 02:41am PT
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1" tubular is pretty strong, and I've pulled a bunch of cars with the stuff, BUT I have managed to break it attemptimg to tow a truck out of the mud.
And not at the knot either.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 23, 2008 - 02:48am PT
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I carry two Campbell-Hausfeld pumps with internal rechargeable batteries (that can be used in reverse as 12 volt "lighter" outlets, or even to boost a weak truck battery) which take up about a half gallon of space, and weigh about 10-12 lbs each.
Then I have a spare to run off the battery.
Compressor??
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jun 23, 2008 - 02:49am PT
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My 3 inch wide tow strap has a rating to 30,000 pounds. If you really get stuck, then you just may need it. I carry two and have used them many times.
The steel fence post is usefull in soft ground for a winch anchor. If you drive 3 of them in a row into the ground and then tie them together you can crank pretty hard on that depending on how soft the ground is.
When I had a truck I carried 4 foot lengths of 2 by 6 that I had nailed short strips of wood to. This was great for getting out of simple stucks in soft ground. Like a ladder.
Yes you can get a 4 wheel drive stuck on ice, if it is slanted. Most 4 wheel drives are really only 2 wheel drive because they have open differentials and when a tire starts to spin, the power goes to just one wheel. If both axles are spinning, then the power only goes to one in the front and one in the back. Chains work great for these situations.
Your best buy is a limited slip differential or a full locker for at least one axle. A killer setup is an air locker for both axles which can then be used to reinflate tires, though you will need an air tank to get enough umph to reset a tire that has come off its bead.
Bow saws come in different sizes. I have a medium sized one that fits in my plastic bin.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jun 23, 2008 - 02:56am PT
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Forgot to mention my favorite trick for saving my ass.
Use your buddies rig. haha
My buddy has a tricked out landcruiser.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Jun 23, 2008 - 03:01am PT
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I forgot about cig-adapter air devices, I was thinking about a no battery/ flat tire situation. Informative thread, for sure.
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Juan Maderita
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 23, 2008 - 05:21am PT
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My kit depends on where I'm going, season, and what the plan is. Mostly I'm in the desert, sand dunes and Baja.
My Ford E350 (1-ton) extended van has a Detroit locker in the front axle and ARB "Air Locker" in the rear. Onboard air system: ARB compressor and a 5 gallon tank mounted underneath, with quick connect fittings fore and aft. Warn 12,000lb. winch.
I carry 2 snatch blocks, one for doubling the line pull to 24,000 lbs., and one for a directional. Main tow/recovery strap is 4" x 35', 40,000 lbs. breaking strength. Additionally, I carry two or more 20' x 3", thick nylon slings (previously used for hoisting shipping containers with cranes). Three 3/4" shackles, plus 2 on the front bumper for connecting, much like using carabiners. And a 60" Hi-Lift jack.
1" tubular or 11mm climbing rope is great - for pulling quads and dirt bikes. If you can pull a 4x4 out with it, then "it weren't really stuck".
My Jeep Wrangler has a Detroit Locker up front and Eaton E-Locker
in the rear. The Ramsey 9,000 lb. winch has been removed for a few years to shave weight for sand duning. The stroked Jeep motor (+75hp) is now the best feature for saving my ass in steep and deep sand dunes - the torque, applied to all 4 wheels equally, keeps me from getting stuck. I carry a Viair 350C 12v compressor mounted in a "Fat 50" ammo can. Quick Air and Oasis also make quality 12v compressors. A few beefy nylon tow straps and shackles get used every trip.
If you don't have a winch, or even if you do, a Hi-Lift jack is probably the best tool you can have. I don't carry a shovel. Why bother when you can lift the front or rear of your vehicle 4 feet in the air and then push it over sideways? Hi-Lifts are tough, versatile, and for around $60, will probably last a lifetime. Available in 48" and 60".
My best trick for saving my ass? Well, how about hitting a witch's eye (trench in the dunes formed by wind) at night and popping the beads on three out of four tires? Reseating tire beads is difficult enough on flat, solid ground. It's hard to get a perfect seal and to fill the tire fast enough with a small compressor to reseat the bead, even if you do have enough beer left to wash the sand off of the rim. The tire needs a sudden burst of air. Throw in a couple tablespoons of gasoline, spin a few revolutions to distribute and vaporize. Throw a match to it and the tire goes on with a ball of flame and a bang. Have to admit, it makes me flinch every time...
The best trick for getting unstuck is not to get stuck, of course. Locking diffs are the best modification you can make for added traction. Airing way down (10 psi) for soft sand probably triples the performance. Know when to use the throttle, and just as importantly, when to ease off. Drive with the tires placed on the high spots/rocks (most people will naturally drive in the low spots).
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Strider
Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples....
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Jun 23, 2008 - 06:38am PT
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Please, read Juan's post VERY carefully! This is EXCELLENT advice on the easiest, cheapest, most effective way to shred the gnar gnar in 4x4.
A high lift jack can be a simple to use life saver in a lot of basic situations. Rear end stuck in a rut? Jack it up 3 feet and exactly like Juan said, push it over! The truck falls over to a better position and either you drive away or do it again until you can. Stuck in a patch of snow? Maybe a set of fresh track will get you out of trouble, pick your truck up and move it over! Screw shoveling it out of the way...
A come-along is also a great tool in place of a winch.
http://tinyurl.com/65u37p
A friend rolled his car onto the driver side in the middle of a narrow dirt road and with 2 guys, two come-alongs, some chain and plenty of sweat, we rotated the car on it's side 180 degrees (so we could tow face first back the way we came and by tow I mean chain it to the back of another car and stick someone in there to wrestle with the newly minted manual brakes and steering), we dragged it 10 feet away from a hill and then flipped it back over on it's wheels.
A locking differential is also one of the best cost vs. reward upgrades you can do if you 4x4 anything tough. I have an electronic locking rear diff on my 4Runner and it has gotten me out of more sh#t that I ever thought possible. From snow banks on the Alaskan highway to a semi frozen tundra lake outside Denali to the thick mud of our California forests, that locking rear diff has made a huge difference.
Juan's advice on driving the high spots is also another good one. Sometimes I can avoid huge ruts and obstructions just by scraping by a few bushes or small trees. If ya don't have scratches on yer rig then ya ain't trying hard enuff! The ruts are a suckers bet anyway.
Last thing is driving through water. Start learning what a deep and fast river looks like and what a slow one does. Toss a rock in the river so you can gauge the speed by the splash. Also, know how your intake works. If it is low in your bumper or wheel well then see if you can detach the intake tube so you take air from higher in your engine compartment during your water crossing and fix it when your done. If you can do this, water crossings over your running boards and up to your door shouldn't be a problem except for your electronics. Currently by electronic locking rear diff doesn't lock because the wires that go to it are screwed from too much fun in water. Once I re-rig that I will be 100% again!
Good Luck!
-n
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 23, 2008 - 07:03am PT
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Forgot to mention the wonder putty.
Juan's gas trick is a new one on me, but desperate times,..
Better yet get "battle rims" that can separate and bolt back together.
Agreed about the climbing rope and not really being stuck. Found out trying to pull out a stuck Land Rover backing up only to have the rope stretch, then snap and whip back into my Bronco.
Time for a new grill.
Watch out with those Hi-Lift jacks, marvelous tools (you can even reverse them for impromptu chain winching) but they can get hinky, so if you are working under it use jackstands or something.
My FJ Cruiser has a locking dif and my F250 has an aftermarket 453 ratio that gives it a monster low end that lugs through sand like a camel.
This is a great thread gang. Keep up the good work.
But don't forget that it is 49% rig and 51% operator.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jun 23, 2008 - 08:35am PT
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That trip when Alex put the dead buzz worm in my car i followed his jacked up toyota into some mighty crazy places with my honda civic and a bit too much redneck logic. By the time we got out from Hwy 16Z caynon I had the floorboards pushed up in a few spots and a dent in the oil pan but was still in buisness..
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jun 23, 2008 - 12:34pm PT
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For many years, my best 4x4 trick was the gimbel-mounted beer can holder on my front dash.
That and a pry bar with a cheater sleeve.
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Jun 23, 2008 - 12:49pm PT
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A cool tip for tow cables and straps is to drape a blanket across the middle as it's getting taut. If the cable or strap was to break it will "ball up" on the blanket and slow it down. Helps keep it from flailing all over the place.
Tow straps with sewn loops rather then metal hooks much safer, too.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jun 23, 2008 - 01:16pm PT
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Come-along with a long strap. Got me out of more mudholes in the southeast than I can count. don't work so well in the desert (or anywhere without a sturdy tree or boulder nearby)
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jun 23, 2008 - 01:33pm PT
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"don't work so well in the desert (or anywhere without a sturdy tree or boulder nearby)"
Thats why you either bury the spare tire as an anchor, or use the fence post tied together.
..........
As far as stuck goes, in my opinion stuck is stuck. Sure there are greater levels of stuck, but if you can't move it by driving it, then you are stuck. Most people don't want to go to the extreme of putting full lockers in both ends because to really get full use out of this, you often have to add a whole lot more upgrades, including bigger tires, suspension lifts, rerouting the airtake. Upgrading the axles, upgrading the gear ratio and on a on and on. To go to this level you have to be dedicated and have at least modest gear wrenching abilities plus be willing to spend the moola.
Many folks don't have the drive to go this far. It is cool to see what people can do, but I like all levels of exploration, including the dude with the stock vehicle that just wants to get unstuck from some simple stuck.
In this case having the basics such as a highlift, a shovel, a tow strap, a come along, and the knowledge of how to build anchors and how to use a highlift can really take you on some fun trips. Knowing of course that you can always get your vehicle MORE stuck. haha.....
Edit: I would love to see some pics of peoples rigs. Juan, strider, and anyone else. from stock to overstock, anyone have pics of their rigs in action.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jun 23, 2008 - 01:46pm PT
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Nobody mentioned chains. I spend more time on snow then mud. Even with 4X4 you don't always have enough traction. I was pulling an suv out of the snow going uphill, and ended up chaining my front wheels (only have one set, need to get a second set) I use a tow strap, 1" webbing is strong, but not strong enough. I was using a steel locking biner that somehow must have had enough gate flutter that it started to straighten out.
A shovel is a must in the snow. I misjudged a shoulder, the grader made the road look wider than it was, and put 1/2 the truck in the shoulder. The snow was deep enough to keep me sliding further off the road, but back and forth as I went I just kept spinning the tires (this was before I had chains, and I couldn't have gotten them on that side anyhow). I dug enough snow out of the ruts to get out.
The stock (all terrain) michelins dodge puts on their 4X4's are really just a pavement tire. The are pizz poor in rain and snow, but at $800 for a new set of tires, I'm going to use them up before replacing them with BFG a/t's.
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