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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 10, 2005 - 01:38pm PT
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Inspired by the portaledge thread.
also inspired by the fact that I had two haul bags take a 200 footer off of the top of the Hallow Flake (still not sure why they didn't crater).
After that epic I stopped by coilers place. After disclosing the dumb/stupid story he recommened what he called the bridal knot.
I've taken his advice and rigged my pig up (for my zion solo). Here's a few shots of what I've done. I like this rig but has anyone got other ideas or tricks?
This shows the entire rig.
On closer inspection of the attachment point we see...
The bridal knot was done with a piece of black static (sorry, makes it harder to see what I did). So I tied the short strap of my A5 bag to the convenience swivel with the bridal knot. the actual knot is a water knot. I then wrapped one of the long ends (the one that points up coming out of the knot) through the swivel again and passed it through the middle of the water knot. this made it so that both strands "point" down. At the end of each strand I tied a overhand on a bite loop.
I will then be clipping my gear bag to one and a ledge (though I'm not taking one this trip) to the other. your poo tube would also go on one. this makes it so it's really easy to get at your ledge and other stuff. You simply pull up the line. No clipping anything to the bottom of the pig.
[deleted photo]
I put a locker on the long strap on the haul bag and duct taped it in to place. I then clip this to the bottom end of the swivel.
I've also tied a lower-out line to the little red tab/loop sewn into the base of one of the attachement loops on the haulbag. I never really did understand what this little guy was for so mabye I just guessed "correctly".
I'm making a little butt pad to go over the waist strap. My pig has two pointy spots that form when full that poke into the top of my donkey.
I've girth hitched a daisy to the base of the bridal knot (purple sling).
So my "questions"
*other ideas on tieing the bridal knot? Did I do it right, coiler?
* should I be clipping the second strap to the bottom of the swivel or maybe to the knot loop?
* figure 8 on a bite to tie in the swivel to the haul line. I've tucked the tail to make it easy to undo the knot. Is there another knot I might want to look in to?
So let's hear it... more tricks of the trade, anyone?
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Feb 10, 2005 - 01:47pm PT
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I don't really understand what the point of the Bridal Knot is, what does it do other then connect the bag to the swivel, and why not just use a crabiner?
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 10, 2005 - 01:48pm PT
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Very nice nature, and what about that bolt in the ceiling of the living room. Ha ha ha
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2005 - 01:49pm PT
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I've always used a biner. But the bags that took a 200 footer came unclipped (probably not locked but I didn't do any rigging of those pigs).
The bridal makes it so the chances of it unclipping do not exist.
A valid question non the less. I'd like to hear coilers response.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 10, 2005 - 01:52pm PT
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Coiler, I thought I saw him in the cafe this morning....
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2005 - 01:59pm PT
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Werner... Ah yes... the A3 bolt in the ceiling. Normally a sky chair hangs there. But since blowing out two other placements (a two foot ground fall on both right on my donkey) I've since retired the piece as a direct aid device.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Feb 10, 2005 - 02:07pm PT
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Holy BWT! I cannot begin to understand what all that stuff is! Your post is completely un-understandable, and I don't "get it" in any way whatsoever, however I appreciate the obviously sincere effort you are making to put forth some new systems.
I have never heard of a bridal knot, and unfortunately I cannot make heads nor tails of your photos, which are poor. Most fundamentally, I do not even know what you are proposing, nor asking. Could you please rewrite the post so it makes sense, take some better photos, and then maybe we can comment and offer suggestions? Thanks.
There may well be something useful in here for all of us to learn, but right now it's a bit of a Charlie Foxtrot.
Yours in confusion,
The Doc
And your swivel is upside-down! The triangular bit points upwards to deflect against rocks, which will rub when you use that kind of knot protector. [There is a MUCH better type of knot protector to use]
And there should be a locker through the swivel, not the rope directly!
However, despite my protestations, it is actually a pretty good thread, and exactly the kind of thing SuperTopo needs, and something I rather delight in answering. As long as I know what the hell it is.
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Feb 10, 2005 - 02:12pm PT
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Werner, I'm glad you noticed the bolt and hanger, too. What is THAT about??
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 10, 2005 - 02:17pm PT
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I was laughing about that bolt because my wife Merry probably wouldn’t want me to go putting in bolts in the living room ceiling.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2005 - 02:17pm PT
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Mac ( I can call you that now, right?) - you'll soon find out, my dear. it's more than just a climbing anchor :-)
The point of the bridal is so that you DON'T clip the bag in with a biner - either above (tied with a figure8) or below (tied with the bridal). The point is that you are tieing the bag directly to the swivel - there are NO biners in the system.
I thought the pully might be upside down. But that sorta makes me wonder. If you flip it, you can only clip one thing to the bottom side - how would you clip/tie multiple bags to the swivel if it's flipped?
Better knot protection - let's see the url.
Werner, good point there, buddy. Guess I better consult with the wife now to see if it can stay.
Edit: In looking at the product information it would appear that I do have the swivel upside down. I guess I don't understand this. It says you can clip multiple biners to the top of the swivel. Why would you do this? More than one haul line? It leaves it so you can clip only one biner to the lower point. I suppose that part works but if you clip anything below the swivel to the upper point you defeat the purpose of the swivel.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Feb 10, 2005 - 02:35pm PT
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pete, why are you being such a dick today, none of us are as wise or experinced as you in the art of bullsh#t...get over it.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2005 - 02:43pm PT
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werd!
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2005 - 02:45pm PT
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ok... so much for sex tricks... back to the topic at hand....
My photos were not the greatest. Still, it seems most got what I was/am doing. Typical.
So here is a few more:
Old A3 hole.
First hole - this one was A4 - it flexed big time when you tested it
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Feb 10, 2005 - 02:48pm PT
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Is it called a Bridal Knot because they use it for horses? Just wondering if my mother in law could show it to me...
not to get nit-picky, but if this is meant to be instructional....you should really have a biner in the bottom holes of the pro-traxion.
I would also agree with pete that it's best to clip the haul line to the swivel with a biner.
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Gene
climber
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Feb 10, 2005 - 02:57pm PT
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Having just one beer on the coffee table is woefully inadequate.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 10, 2005 - 02:59pm PT
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Nature, seems ok in the living room….but like anything, in the field, the truth rears its head. I personally never like to have my stuff tied up in knotts. I always like to have the options of getting out of a situation in case something changes on the fly. Carabineers would work for me, but then again, you’re the one doing it, you’ll soon find out.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 10, 2005 - 03:00pm PT
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yes, biner below the pully for sure.
Again, the point is to eliminate the biners. It's not so much instructional as much as I'm just wondering about this new system. I use to use biners above and below the pully. I'm just trying out what Coiler recommended last summer.
As far as why it's called the bridal knot I never asked. Didn't really care. I was still in shock from seeing those haul bags go for a ride I was open to any ideas that made more sense and seemed less complicated (at least in terms of things that could go wrong).
Without the pully I'd tie the haul line in directly to the haul bag (I guess is the idea). I wuv that pully!
hey werner... if you see coiler again maybe you could do me a favor and send him the way of this thread? He's the guy that recommended it. Seems like I should be asking him but I've no way to contact him directly.
A big bottle of Stone IPA - my dog just got done with it. She's fine with only one...
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Gene
climber
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Feb 10, 2005 - 03:06pm PT
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Stone IPA - yumm!
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Feb 10, 2005 - 03:11pm PT
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Question about the Bridal Knot, does it come untied easily, like a bowline after weighted? It looks like a variation on the figure-8 knot...which could be a bitch to untie after hauling.
I am with Werner, I have run into too many times where I need to take the damn bag or rope off for a second for some stupid reason, usualy a tangle. I like locking biners, and I duck tape the lock shut.
But new techniques are cool too...
cheers
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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Feb 10, 2005 - 03:13pm PT
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Sort of a related question...
How do you prefer to anchor the bag?
Recently, I've been using a spare adjustable daisy which offers you the ability to reposition the bag up or down a bit(the bag is of coarse also backed up with the hauline directly to the anchor). Others sware by some 6mil cord and a load release knot. I can imagine some scenarios where a proper load release knot would be helpful but in my limited experience I've managed to get by just fine with out it. Am I asking for trouble?
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