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crackfiend
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 3, 2008 - 03:37pm PT
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I was in the valley right before christmas and was scoping mescalito through a scope and say fixed lines top to bottom. Whats the deal?? someone working on a free ascent? I did remember reading something in Tom's posts this summer mentioning it but was curious as to what the deal is.
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pimp daddy wayne
climber
The Bat Caves
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Yeah those are mine. I'm just brushing up for my free ascent.
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crackfiend
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2008 - 03:59pm PT
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good luck on those dowell ladders, yikes!!!!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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That's a bad area for icefall, man. {chop!}
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Yes, a free ascent has been in the works for quite some time. I know who, but I don't want to risk incriminating them so I'm not posting. Let's just say that it's a very capable party. Every pitch is very hard. From what I've heard, the vast majority of the pitches are 12c or harder. When it is complete it will surely be the hardest (overall) route on El Cap.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Hard, schmard. Fixing ropes up an entire route is terrible form, inconsiderate, egotistical and just plain tacky.
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Riotch
Trad climber
Kayenta, Arizona
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Yeah, we had that experience on the Salathe. It definitely detracts from other climbers' experience.
I'm all for people freeing aid lines. BUT, I'm not into people adding bolts to established routes. And, yes, fixing an entire El Cap route is kinda tacky, Rhodo has a point!
I don't think the Hubers, Tommy, or other El Cap free climbers found it necessary to fix an entire route.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Well, let's hope they don't place bolts 14" from perfect Hybrid Alien placements, like what was done on the pitch above The Ledge on Dihedral Wall.
Or how about that newly freed route on the NW Face of Half Dome - Arcturus? - featured very recently in Rock & Ice Magazine. You know, the one with the shiny new bolts drilled a couple feet away from the perfect finger crack that buddy is using? There are at least two photos like that - does this knott piss everyone else off, or is it just me? SHAMEFUL.
The Hubers have replaced old bolts with new ones, but so far as I am aware have never added any bolts to the aid routes they have freed. They are known for bold and difficult climbing, running it out a long ways, and taking huge whippers until they send.
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elcap-pics
climber
Crestline CA
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Wrong Roitch... you assume too much... right you are pete.. I noticed that "extra bolt" in the photo too... not good, not good at all...
EDIT:
But that said the guys did a really fine ascent and in their writing they said that the crack that appears to be A-1 to us is in effect not what it appears to be... so I guess since I was not there and they were and did a really sustained effort on a route that is not done much if at all maybe we should give them a pass on this one issue..
The guy doing Mescalito and I had a chat a while back and he said that he would not work on the route except in winter so as to not interfere with the climbers on the route in season. I said that sounded fine to me. One has to realize that doing such a route free is way beyond other free routes done on the Cap at this time. This is a really long route and not much free climbing has ever been done on it and the logistics of such a climb would be daunting, to say the least. I think, and told him at the time, that the ropes are fine as long as they don't diminish the experience for regular climbers who do the route, or piss off the NPS. He agreed fully so I think we should let him have a go at it as it would certainly be a free climb of a new level not previously seen on ElCap. I don't know anything about the bolting issue here but one could not expect a guy to be pushing the limits of free climbing 60ft out above some shitty heads! So some bolting will most certainly be necessary.. Hopefully he will be respectfull of the rock and the route itself... I have nothing but the highest regard for this man and think he will do the right thing in the bolting department. IMHO I think he should be given the chance to do his climb as he has stated his sensitivity to the route and the other climbers who will be on it. Best of luck to him....
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Someday Aiding routes like Arcturus will be the thing of the past, and the Salathe will be the Astroman for our kids. When I saw the R&I pictures I was a bit weirded out by those bolts, but its next to an A1 crack, so it hardly lowers the nature of the route. Personally I would have felt better if he just pinkpointed it and left a few cams in. However I'm not exactly the one freeing these walls, who I want to hear is the Hubers or TC chime in.
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handsome B
Gym climber
SL,UT
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Pete, El-Cap Pics, GD,
Have you climbed Arcturus?
The Hubers added bolts to New Jersey to make El Nino
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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I think this is the 40th different thread I've seen pete complain about the dihedral bolts. Do something or let it go already.
Regarding those Arcturus bolts, there's a couple quotes in that article from Mike Anderson about them, his rationale for placing them. Since he was honest enough to address that issue directly, maybe people could address that instead of just a photo 'of a bolt next to a perfect finger crack.'
Come on. Those guys don't strike me as the type to place bolts next to so-called perfect finger cracks.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Here are some of the quotes from the article on freeing Arcturus in Rock and Ice #165:
p.55 (pitch 18): "The crack looks as though it would take gear, but was too shallow and flaring. We placed a few bolts."
p.56 (pitch 3): "Before we got on the climb, Mike talked to Royal about the route. He said that he and Dick Dorworth climbed it in the style of the day [free and aid], and that we should also climb it in the style of our day. We interpreted this as his approval for us to establish a five-star big wall free climb, and we believe that we did."
p.57 (pitch 12): "Protecting this was an ethical dilemma for me. Clean gear was out of the question, but it would have taken marginal pins. In general, I think fixing pins should be avoided because they damage the climbing features and wear out quickly."
I don't think the route got much aid traffic, as it was known to have some scary loose blocks (cleaned by the FFA party from above).
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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hate to spill the beans but word is lots of new bolts on this new El Cap line, some on unreprated aid pitches. shame...
but that is all I know. and that is just second hand information so take it with a grain of salt.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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How often is Mescalito climbed as a wall (aid + some free) these days?
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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'these days' as in Winter...not that much I'd guess...
'these days' as in during the season, reagularly
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Lambone--
All I can say is, if that's true, then a very popular figure is about to become the center of controversy. But what else is new...
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Riotch--
I don't think you know who you're talking about.
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elcap-pics
climber
Crestline CA
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See my edited post above....
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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I have never done Arcturus. I read the article in R&I in its entirety, and I do not buy their argument for bolting. If the crack is really A1, then this means there is good pro for every move, otherwise it would be harder than A1. Placing bolts which are easy to clip makes the route a hugely easier proposition to free climb, because you don't have to fiddle in any gear. The Hubers would never have placed bolts next to a certainly-great-looking but perhaps-not-as-good-as-it-looks but still-bloody-adequately-protectable crack.
Until such time as I actually see the route for myself, I should reserve judgement, but it sure as hell looks like a travesty of "convenience retrobolts" to me, not just from the photos, but from the logical argument above.
Todd Skinner appears to have been a bad offender, based on what I saw on Dihedral Wall, and the photos I saw of Wet Denim Daydream. Before going up there on El Cap, I was not aware of the situation on Dihedral Wall - I still think there is some sort of "cover-up" in effect - otherwise I would have brought my tuning forks, bolt removal gear and epoxy to fill the bolt holes. Unfortunately I had no way to properly remove the bolts - I would never chop nor smash them, because I always want to remove the gear in as invisible a way as possible.
I can bloody tell you if I'm ever up on Wet Denim Daydream, and those bolts are there, they're bloody coming out.
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