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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 8, 2007 - 03:39pm PT
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Dear Lois
As a worthy partner in our love-hate relationship, I must dedicate the following tribute to you to mark this occasion of your leaving me.
The nature of Internet discussion has created new idioms for communication protocol like “Goodwin’s Law”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodwin%27s_law
You deserve a law named for you and I consider it my duty to propagate this law across cyberspace for the sanity of the world and to render you lasting fame. A legacy that I know you will actually cherish despite any negative connotations.
So without further ado. Let me present “Lois’s Law” and it corollary principle, “the Loising Point”
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I have an internet friend named Lois.
She just doesn’t “get it” sometimes.
The truth is we all don’t “Get it” to different degrees about something or another.
But Lois embodies obtuseness in such a way that I realize that a certain threshold of blindness is a cosmic principle in human relationships. We can talk until we are blue in the face but some people will never, ever, ever, ever, Ever “get it”
Get used to it.
“Hey Lois, can you see the nose on your face?”
“I don’t see it. Everybody else’s face seem to have a nose but I can’t see one on me”
“Lois, look way down above your lips, you gotta see it.”
“All I see is a blurry blob. It doesn’t look anything like the nose on your face.”
“Come on Lois, when you have a cold, what’s all the snot come out of?”
“Oh Lord, when it’s cold season my cat gets a cold and her nose drips all over my clean sheets. But me, I’ve never heard anything about any nose that might be on my face”
“Yeah Lois, but I searched on the internet and I found 12 examples of people telling you about the nose on your face.”
“You never can be too sure of anything. I heard of a man whose nose was shot off by his ex-wife, I bet he still get colds and he didn’t have a nose. What do you mean by nose?”
I could go on and on,
and it does go on and on.
But the point is simple.
And that is
When you’ve gone around and around trying to communicate something to someone, made your case clear, logical, documented and presented it from every conceivable viewpoint.
And that person can’t even acknowledge the issue to disagree on.
And when their responses inevitably turn into a self-referential feedback loop
That person will never get your point
But you’ve reached theirs
You’ve
reached
their
“Loising point.”
Any further discussion will only deteriorate into the “Loisification” of the subject.
The self-referential feedback loop will imprint excess bandwidth hum over any further progress in the debate.
The topic is lost and the subject reverts to "Me, Me, Me"
Don’t go there. When you reach someone’s “Loising Point” stop engaging. The discussion and only be “Loised-up” at that point.
If you take somepoint to the Loising point.
Step
Away
From
The
Computer!
With all Love
Karl
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Lois, ever heard the expression, "Ignorance is bliss"?
That could explain it.
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John Moosie
climber
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Why does Dick Cheney appear to be successful? Why do the drug lords of south America appear to be successful? Is it because they are doing something good?
Nope. Material success can be achieved for a time without spiritual success. One can be spiritually ignorant and still achieve what the carnal mind thinks of as success. The rich man in the bible is a prime example. By outward signs he was successful. But was he really?
There is nothing inherently wrong with material wealth, unless it keeps you from achieving spiritual oneness. This was the case with the rich man in the bible. His material wealth kept him from truly surrendering his life.
Lois, your job of attempting to help others ameliorates much of your karma. But your Love of war will eventually catch up with you. karma does not come back instantly. If it did, then a killer would instantly die. Instead, it gives you time to learn by coming back gradually. If you do not learn, then eventually it catches up with you. My Karma is from previous lives.
You tend to see things in a black and white manner. It is not that you are ALL bad. It is that you are unwilling to look at your ego and how it affects you. You have too strong of a need to be right.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 8, 2007 - 04:10pm PT
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"For all these terrible attributes I have (and all these people that I have made so miserable), should I not be suffering more?"
"Ignorance is Bliss" as they say Lois.
Suffering is caused by a tiny heart, and by our own thoughts and desires torturing us.
Your heart's probably OK and your thoughts coalesce to torture me, rather than you.
So It's all good!
Peace
Karl
Edit: I swear I hadn't seen Shack's post when I wrote that
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Kopy Kat Karl!!
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John Moosie
climber
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" I am too dominating and heavy handed for this place. The difference between me and someone like Cheney is that I DO care if I am making someone's life miserable."
So why glorify being dominating by giving it the power to keep you from admitting when you make a mistake?
Instead, be humble and admit your mistakes. Contrary to how some people think, most humans are very forgiving.
And by the way, its not that you are too domineering, its that you never admit when you are wrong. You defend yourself to the death, so you end up dead to others.
To think that you are just TOO powerful for others is an egotistical belief. There are very powerful people on this site. They just don't put up with ego.
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WandaFuca
Gym climber
San Fernando Lamas
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Here you can find the beginning of the phenomenom that is LEB--that is until it is pushed back as she adds more and more pages to her post count in her never-ending swan song.
And here is a classic example of Loisification from early in her ST career.
I was going to say that Lois is the Curse of Falkenstein because I thought that when Lois first started here, that she said that the person who recommended that she come to ST to look for information was CF. But I couldn't find any mention of it.
Lois, I try not to engage you, but I'm wondering who that person was who first recommended that you come to ST to find info about that Yosemite slide show.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
www.happyninja.com
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lois, people who claim YOU are "making" them feel a certain way need to take responsibility for their own emotions. you're not responsible for anyone's feelings but your own.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
www.happyninja.com
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do you ever wonder what it would have been like if you were born as the other sex? my mom was going to name me "hunter" if i was a boy.
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John Moosie
climber
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What makes you think you are going to get more lives to mess up? Isn't it arrogant to think you know how many lives you have left or even that you have lives left to live? Arrogance is a killer. Your outward success is no guarantee of future chances.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
www.happyninja.com
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napoleon
they told you your music
could reach millions
that the choice was up to you
you told me they always
pay for lunch
and they believe in what i do
and i wonder
will you miss your old friends
once you've proven what you're worth
yeah i wonder
when you're a big star
will you miss the earth
and i know you would always want more
i know you would never be done
'cuz everyone is a f*cking napoleon
yeah everyone is a f*cking napoleon
and the next time
that i saw you
you were larger than life
you came and you conquered
you were doing alright
you had an army
of suits behind you
and all you had to be was willing
and i said i still
make a pretty good living
you must make a killing
a killing
and i hope that you are happy
i hope at least you are having fun
'cuz everyone is a f*cking napoleon
yeah everyone is a f*cking napoleon
now you think, so that is
the way it's gonna be
that's what this is all about
i think that that is
the way it always was
you chose not to notice until now
yeah now that there's a problem
you call me up to confide
and you go on for over an hour
'bout each one that took you for a ride
and i guess that you dialed my number
'cuz you thought for sure that i'd agree
i said baby, you know i still love you
but how dare you complain to me
everyone is a f*cking napoleon
yeah everyone is a f*cking napoleon
 ani di franco
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John Moosie
climber
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Thanks for the apology Lois. I wasn't so much hurt as annoyed that people just don't seem to be able to accept that someone can make a mistake and then learn from it. Once tarnished, always tarnished is some peoples beliefs.
As for the extra lifetimes. While it is true that we do have more then one lifetime to learn in, it is not true that there is an unlimited number of them, so it is arrogance to presume that you will have more. How do you know you haven't used up your allotment? Is this just hope? Or is it the ego's way of keeping you from working hard right now.
The ego is what tells someone they have plenty of time to change. It doesn't want to change because it knows that true change leads to less power for itself and eventually to its death.
......................
By the way Karl, your first post is too funny. LOL
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Applause! Bravo!
I think I need to add The Lois Point to my Glossary of Dr. Piton-isms.
Has anyone suggested the term "Loisification" yet?
Karl - can you please come up with dictionary-worthy definitions of the terms?
Clearly Karl has been reading my stuff, because he so properly gets the term "get".
Which begs the question - why do non-climbers [like Lois] write [so much] in a climbing forum? Aren't there other better places?
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Varied locales along the time and space continuum
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OK, I've been way to busy to pay attention to the Taco stand much for several months and look at all the fun on the doorstep when I arrive back!
Karl: thank you for “Lois’s Law” and it corollary principle, “the Loising Point." Some truth mixed with a sense of humor, all from a very loving and kind point of view. You do a great job of manifesting the beauty that lies within us all.
John: you expressed just what I was thinking regarding material success. Thank you for being articulate and really making an effort to give and to explain what you have learned. It's that constant grasping, that attachment that brings suffering. And so too does aversion. Attachment and aversion are two sides of the same ego coin, eh? Let go attachment and aversion and we can begin the path toward spiritual fulfillment and releasing ourselves from suffering.
Lois: you have given the taco stand a flavor and character alright! And I mean that in a positive manner. At the heart of the matter, only you really know what the true state of your inner self is. And perhaps ignorance is bliss as others have said.
Here's an experiment you might want to try (or maybe not!). In your first reply to this post, in two paragraphs you used the a first person article (I, me, my, etc.) about 32 times (I'm probably not counting accurately). See if you can write a reply without using the first person or minimizing. See what you can write that gives to others. The more you give away (and the less you grasp via attachment or aversion), the more the rewards flow in.
OK, enough of my own ego yammering on. :-) Time to go take care of (give) to my kids... we participated in the Rosebud Parade here in Pasadena this morning... dress up yer wagon, stroller, etc. and have a big parade with 1,000 odd other kids down Lake Street. Great fun!
Fletch
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John Moosie
climber
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hahaha..nope Lois, you are overconfident. Once again you refuse to look in the mirror. Classic Lois's Law.
I will accept the Loising point and move on.
We do KNOTT have unlimited lives in the material world because some beings get stuck and this would lead to eternal hell for them. Hell is not eternal. God is not cruel. He/She gives us many opportunities but would not leave us eternally stuck in the hell of our own creation, hence there is a limit to how many lifetimes one has.
Oops...I broke Lois's law and went past the Loising point. Sorry.
Good night and Good luck with writing the final.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
www.happyninja.com
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pasadena! right on. are you also doing the rose parade?!!!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 8, 2007 - 05:26pm PT
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This was one of my favorite Loisified threads. I keep trying to bust here. It doesn't get good until near the end,
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=412945
Peace
karl
Here's what I devolved to near the end
"But yeah, I should have given up long ago, but sometimes it's fun playing catch.
Like earlier this week in the Capital Punishment thread when Lois was claiming she had no idea Crowley had admired a Republican candidate for President when she claimed he hated ALL Republicans. I did I little research and found the she had posted dozens and dozens of times to the thread in which Crowley admired Republican Ron Paul.
I'm just kinda fascinated with Lois since she's a nice person and really intellligent enough to to a nurse pract. and even teach it. I want to know what makes her tick and not tick and keep wondering if there's any "wake up" button I could find.
sorry to talk about you like you weren't there Lois. You understand.
Peace
Karl
Edit: Here's where I got her.
LEB> What "guy"? Are you referring to Crowley? If Crowley is supporting a particular presidential candidate then I have not participated in the thread on which he has spoken that content. I do not dog Crowley around on every thread. Unless he says his piece on whatever thread(s) I happen to be following (which is never more than 1-3 at any given time) - or else emails me about something - then I will be totally unaware of what he has written. Who exactly is Crowley supporting. This is the second reference someone has made to this concept.
As for Moosie and big vs small government, it is difficult to respond to anything John posts because he address so many points in one posting. John asks me so many questions that I can not keep track of them all. If you wish me to address a specific point which John has made then please ask John to repost that question (by itself!) or else repost it on his behalf. My whole issue with John is that he addresses entirely too much content at any one time. Again, exactly who is Crowley supporting and when/where did he make his views public concerning this issue?
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Re: Perhaps there IS a role for capital punishment, afterall
Jul 7, 2007, 02:36pm PST
Author: LEB Paul who, Crowley? You are all always yelling at me for not using google enough. I can't google "Paul." Which "Paul?"
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Re: Perhaps there IS a role for capital punishment, afterall Jul 7, 2007, 02:38pm PST
Author: Karl Baba
It only matters 50% if you followed that thread (I'd be surprised if you hadn't posted to it!)
The fact is, you're so not paying attention that you could accuse him of hating all Republicans. Obvously, it aint so,
As for moosie, This is for you. Post it below and cropped short so she can respond
Peace
Karl
time wasted edit for Ron Paul by crowley
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=409117
Crowley defends Ron Paul. I guess you weren't following that thread even though I totally, honestly lost count of how many times you posted to that thread cause I started laughing too hard!
good thing you didn't post to this one
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=410748
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Re: Perhaps there IS a role for capital punishment, afterall Jul 7, 2007, 02:40pm PST
Author:
LEB> What thread, Karl? Please direct me to the thread wherein Crowley published his views on this matter? "
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Varied locales along the time and space continuum
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Hey Standing Strong,
pasadena! right on. are you also doing the rose parade?!!!
Oh yes! The floats get staged right in front of our home on New Year's eve. The best part of the Rose Parade for us is going out after midnight, walking around and checking out all the floats and activity. It's a giant party!
Fletch
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Karl, where's the definition?
I miss my crab, it's about bloody time I got him back. It's been over two years.
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