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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 29, 2007 - 03:34am PT
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Thanks Crowley
At first glance Rudy seems like a lesser evil than some of the GOP candidates since he's moderate on some social issues.
His association with the neo-cons is deeply troubling though. The nation can't afford another 4 years of what we've been through
peace
Karl
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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Oct 29, 2007 - 04:08am PT
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Go to bed Crowley.
DD
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 29, 2007 - 04:50am PT
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Ditto what Karl said.
Can't sleep, Neo-Cons will eat me.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Oct 29, 2007 - 11:25am PT
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A and Karl...Rudy is just using what he knows will get him vote...fear.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 29, 2007 - 11:45am PT
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Hi Bob
The neo-con link goes beyond his fear-mongering. He's really connected with these guys. If he's elected, they're elected.
The combination of Bush as front man, and neo-cons in the power positions, has given us the bogus war and systematic erosion of civil rights that threatens our democracy today. It must be rolled back or we'll be virtual prisoners in a state where, if you don't like what the Government is doing, they can put you away as an "enemy combatant" with no due process, and waterboard you in the meantime.
Peace
Karl
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 29, 2007 - 12:33pm PT
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Oh no, not me. I most certainly have NOT joined the club. From the beginning I thought the Iraq War was a mistake in concept and execution and that the aggressive stand of the Neocons with respect to Syria, Iran etc. are reckless.
I supported the invasion of Afghanistan, believe we should re-evaluate (not invade) our ties with some of our supposed Arab friends such as Saudi Arabia, and use narrow, targeted force elsewhere only when necessary. That's about it.
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Oct 29, 2007 - 12:53pm PT
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Could you point out the part that makes him a fraud there o wise one that masquerades as Alistair Crowley....
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Oct 29, 2007 - 12:53pm PT
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Karl...if the American people fall for this sh#t again...they get what they deserve. The guy is a f*#king fake.
There are three major events in the last 7 years that show the complete apathy of the American people.
1...The Supreme Court involvement in the 2000 election.
2. The invasion of Iraq.
3. The Patriot Act.
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Oct 29, 2007 - 01:15pm PT
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What part of your initial post defines Guiliani as a fraud?
There is not a single thing in that piece that Guiliani said,just a bunch of op-ed.
You think Irans nuclear program is peaceful? Will you go on record with that?
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Oct 29, 2007 - 01:25pm PT
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radical wrote:
"Rudy isn't even close to as terrible as Bush"
bush jr was going to be "a uniter, not a divider" who promised us "a humble approach to foreign policy". so what makes you think you can possibly say how "terrible" rudy will be, if elected?
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 29, 2007 - 01:35pm PT
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I think the best of the bunch of leading nominees is probably McCain. At least he is willing to take a stand against the U.S. acting as torturers.
Sorry Fatty, I still can't vote for him.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Oct 29, 2007 - 02:08pm PT
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After watching many sound bites of Rudy, it seems he is only in it for Rudy. This is backed up by his children supporting OBama. He attended his daughters graduation, came late, sat in the back, and left without speaking to her.
Hmmmmnn, do I want him running my family/country?
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Oct 29, 2007 - 02:23pm PT
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OK Crowley,you are certain then about Iran's intentions,and those of Israel and "Neocon America" too I take it.
And the fraud? I'm still missing that piece.I did read the first three paragraphs.I don't see a single statement anywhere in that piece that is even attributable to Guiliani.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 29, 2007 - 02:35pm PT
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The Chief UN guy on Nukes says there's no evidence Iran is trying to build nukes and couldn't get em fast anyway.
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/UN_nuclear_chief_attacks_hostile_US_claims_on_Iran_999.html
Now if you want to sanction them for having a nuclear program, Fine, as long as you apply that standard equally. How can we let Israel, Pakistan and India slide for building the actually weapons?
as for Rudy, he'd likely be a pawn just like Bush.
Bob wrote:
"Karl...if the American people fall for this sh#t again...they get what they deserve. The guy is a f*#king fake.
There are three major events in the last 7 years that show the complete apathy of the American people.
1...The Supreme Court involvement in the 2000 election.
2. The invasion of Iraq.
3. The Patriot Act. "
I'm sad to agree and sad to have to go along with the ride.
When things get bad enough, the people will get angry but it will be too late and the government will make them too scared to fight
peace
Karl
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WandaFuca
Gym climber
San Fernando Lamas
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Oct 29, 2007 - 02:45pm PT
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The voting majority will get the government it deserves, but what about the rest of us sorry sons of bitches that get dragged along for the ride.
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Oct 29, 2007 - 02:50pm PT
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All wars are a disaster Crowley.I guess I missed the part about immigation and civil unions in your original post,I'll read it again....
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 29, 2007 - 03:11pm PT
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Lots of Rudy slander from the left on the net today
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/29/4874/
"Could the United States actually elect as president a Yankee fan who has been rooting for the Red Sox? A father whose own children would boycott his inauguration? A husband whose first wife was his cousin and whose current wife can’t remember how many times she married? Could the United States, for that matter, elect a cross-dresser? The Rudy Giuliani surge would be comic if its broader implications were not so grave.
Could the United States elect as president someone whose neoconservative advisers have been wrong on a decade’s worth of foreign policy questions? Last week’s group portrait in The New York Times of Giuliani’s national security inner circle makes Rumsfeld and Cheney look like the wise men.
Gay-tolerant and prochoice, Giuliani contradicts, and even demeans, the “values” that have defined conservative America for a generation. That the former mayor of New York is so successfully overcoming what should have been candidacy-killing negatives among Republicans is an epiphany of our national condition. Why is such a figure emerging as the odds-on favorite to carry the right wing banner into the general election?........"
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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Oct 29, 2007 - 03:18pm PT
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It would be pretty F-ing hillarious to see some of these Neocon wack jobs waterboarded, freeze/thawed, and put into stress positions. I'd like to see them try to claim it's A-OK after that.
McCain is one of my biggest disappointments. He has the moral authority to speak about torture, but is suprisingly short winded on it. Early on he was the ONLY repub I could see myself not voting AGAINST (there are no Demo's I would vote FOR). Now I'm down to Ron Paul as the as being the nut job I least despise.
Is Canada hiring yet?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 29, 2007 - 03:37pm PT
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It's completely impossible for a good candidate to become nominated by a major party and win the election. If there happened to be a smart superstar rich person of some sort (Oprah? Harrison Ford? just examples of the type) that could independently get the vote away from the status quo, they'd either have to jump onboard the status quo or they'd be eliminated somehow.
The banks and big money own our politics. It's that simple. They let us do whatever we want on subjects they don't care about like Gay marriage, Abortion, and whatever else doesn't really touch them
One of the best steps we could actually take is eliminate the federal reserve system and nationalize our money!
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/135.html
PEace
karl
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Oct 29, 2007 - 03:42pm PT
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Fatrad wrote:
Crowley,
Why no thread on Barak?
What would you have to say, Fatrad, if there were?
Barak seems to have taken a bsck seat in this election recently.
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