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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 4, 2007 - 10:39pm PT
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Just spent some time around Washington Column. The general trash situation was actually pretty good with only one idiot's crapbag in the forest.
The one exception was some empty water bottles here and there.
Now there's definitely a debate to be had over whether it's good to leave "fixed water" if you bail on a route. The NPS would certainly say "no" but I have a hard time pouring out water when I know some guy dying of thirst may show up in a few days and that water would be his saving grace.
But I will say this and please state your disagreement if you see it differently:
If you drink wall water, you are therefore obligated to carry out the bottle. It's lame to leave a small amount and think it's the next guy's problem. That's like leaving a sip of milk left in the carton in the fridge.
Drink Wall Water, Carry out Wall Bottles, or go thirsty. Period
(FYI, carried out three empty bottles I didn't drink from but couldn't bring myself to deal with the crap bag as our tube was full of it already)
Peace
Karl
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I agree.
If you're going to leave it then leave it mostly full at least.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Yes, only full bottles.
Man law.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 4, 2007 - 11:17pm PT
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I might disagree with some of the above. If somebody leaves a gallon and you only need a quart, use a quart , leave the rest, and resolve to pick up empty trash along the way. Just don't leave a pint and call it good.
Waste not, want not
Peace
karl
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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I drink it, I leave it, I always carry out the empties.
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james Colborn
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
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Karl, how was the climb? Our party of three got off the Prow on Sat. There was a party of two in the trees below the summit that I never actually saw but talked to. They asked us if we were you, and if we had some xtra H2o. We brought enough to bathe in after the climb and leave a gallon. I have developed a phobia of running out. Needless to say they seemed pretty psyced that we had left the gallon to make their bivy a little more comfy. I went back to the base today to get an extra haul bag we left behind at the start, almost got clocked by someones poop tube that had fallen out of their pack at the base of the S.F. Picked up three empty crushed coke bottles at the base and a cliff bar I dropped, couldn't locate the jolly rancher I lost. bummer.
James
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elcap-pics
climber
Crestline CA
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Use a marker to put the date on all water bottles you haul up.. for obvious reasons
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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james, you should know better. There is no way that jolly rancher was going to survive one night out in the cold. Not with the booty-hounds prowling the base... no sir.
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Rock Hopper
climber
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Leave No Trace. After all, its only just more trash lying around. Also the water can quickly develop all sorts of bacteria and bugs, possibly giving the next guy (if there is one) the runs.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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I'd agree with Karl's thoughts here. I've left full bottles at bivis/ledges, and even the base (in plain sight) for parties that will inevitably need it. Especially on trade routes.
I'll throw this out there too, since I've seen it a number of times. What about things like canned food? I've seen canned food, stacked in plain sight on ledges near the top and at the base of climbs, as an offering to those who may have carried less and wanted/needed more. What's the feeling on this? I'm not as much a fan of this (haven't done it myself).
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Wade Icey
Big Wall climber
Indian Caves, CA
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seems like good policy to always cary out more trash than you carry in.
I think the marker idea is a good one if you're leaving fixed water- but probably a better idea to take a bottle bath on top and carry the empty down. Especially on the Column where you're never really a life threatening distance from water - either on the ground or the arches spring.
Any of you supertopo scientists know what the shelf life of wall water would be before it becomes a health hazard?
Canned food edit: I think same as above should apply mark it if you're gonna leave it and probably shouldn't leave it on shorter routes - where you can be on the ground or at the deli within a few hours.
On the other hand- leaving beer for those less fortunate, anywhere in the park is an
ethical, altrustic, noble thing to do.
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Ricardo Carlos
Trad climber
Off center, CO.
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Ran out of water on Pan Am Baja. found a can of soup almost at top. Gave the boost needed.
I really do not know from S+it or shinola buy doesn’t the suns UV rays keep the water drinkable for along time?
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Wade Icey
Big Wall climber
Indian Caves, CA
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Hey Mike,
Did ya carry out the empty, leave it fixed, or carry the half of fith (a two and a half?) down to where you could add a splash of water?
Hope all's well with you and yours.
Cheers.
I wonder if the King Cobra was the Rummy equivalent to leaving a little for Jah?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2007 - 12:26am PT
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"Karl, how was the climb? "
It was about enjoying nature, comradeship and helping my partner get his aid chops up to speed. I'd consider it a success as he went from taking about 3 hours to lead pitch 2 of the South Face to 1.5 hours to lead a similar section of the Prow later on.
Nice weather, and good to meet Ya'll. I'm paranoid and brought too much water as well.
Peace
Karl
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Mick K
climber
Northern Sierra
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I agree with karl. We tried to take every piec of litter/garbage on our trip up the prow this weekend. Actually the route was very clean. I recall see almost no garbage on the route. However we didI agree with Karl. We tried to take every piece of litter/garbage on our trip up the Prow this weekend. Actually the route was very clean. I recall see almost no garbage on the route. Good job everyone. However we did get a leaper cam stuck (go figure). I hate leaving anything on a wall accept by blood and sweat.
Take only memories leave only blood and sweat.
However, water can be a lifesaver. We left a gallon as James said on the top of WC which was almost immediately appreciated by a couple bivying nearby. We were happy to help out. The water stash should never be bigger than necessary to provide aid (i.e. get down) and food should be left only in very rare occasions.
I can attest that if you run out on a wall it doesn’t matter that the stash may be a little moldy. If you are on top you probably won’t get the runs until you are back on the ground.
Karl it was good to met you. I was one of the guys on the approach taking or second break after hiking only .10 of a mile. It is even greater to hear your partner has been fully indoctrinated.
Edit-mike. = bingo
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Wade Icey
Big Wall climber
Indian Caves, CA
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Mick - have you been drinking moldy water?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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holy repeat sentence batman...
if I topped out on something and there was stash water, i would be eternaly grateful...
ok eternity is a long time, let's just say til I died.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2007 - 01:16am PT
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"Karl it was good to met you"
It's getting pretty dang fun in Yosemite these days as so many of us know each other from Supertopo, it's like meeting old friends that you never met out at the crags. We met a bunch of Supertopo misfits (a good thing) up there.
as for wall water, my point about using it and then removing the bottle is only a tit for tat ethics rant to keep folks honest. The real heroes are the ones who take out as much as they can handle or make special clean up trips on rest days. Brutus of Wyde comes to mind.
Peace
Karl
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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What about water ethics while on the wall?
share? or separate to the end?
water hogs speak up!
water savers post!
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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if you can't "share water" on a wall you need to solo.
camaradrie is; you're in it together.
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