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c wilmot
climber
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Feb 13, 2017 - 08:24am PT
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Dam it
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 13, 2017 - 08:44am PT
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Nice analysis Dingus and to the point.
I feared for all those people's property they had to evacuate if that emergency spillway broke down ......
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Feb 13, 2017 - 08:50am PT
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madamimadam
and i'm not very wise
eveneve
said it rolling her eyes
--mfm
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Feb 13, 2017 - 08:51am PT
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ALL dams in California are "flood control" dams, it is the only way they get federal financing. Flood control dams are usually operated at levels far below their capacity.
ALL dams in California have contracts with water users generating the majority of the revenue for the dams. These contracts are multiyear so the probability of low runoff years has to be folded into the operations.
Environmental regulations require specific flow rates along the rivers.
Current California climate varies from the historic period (generally 1910-1960) that was the basis for the dam design and operation.
To the extent that the dam operators are "rolling the dice with lady luck," an important mitigation is regional forecasting on the decadal scale which is built on our climate modeling capabilities. Important not only for informing the operation of the dams, but also in deciding what future projects are economically viable.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Feb 13, 2017 - 08:51am PT
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Read the book "The Emerald Mile" for some perspective.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Feb 13, 2017 - 09:13am PT
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"Devestate the entire Central Valley" - What does that mean? Will farming lands be unable to produce for the season? Fruit/Nut trees bee killed? Good Old Erosion reducing trees swept away? Cities/towns/rural lands flooded to the point of catastrophic level? Roadways and bridges washed away????
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John M
climber
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Feb 13, 2017 - 09:21am PT
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Its been light for more then 3 hours. Has anyone seen pics of the recent situation? I can't find anything. The news reporting on this has been atrocious. They keep saying the dam could fail, and then they back up a bit and say.. oh. but just the emergency spillway.
Plus some keep saying its a boil, but my understanding from the levies is a boil is when water is seeping through or under the levy and its my understanding that the water was flowing over the emergency spillway and eroding near the base. Erosion that was dangerous, but still not a boil.
Has anyone seen pics from this morning? Everything that I have seen is yesterdays pics.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Feb 13, 2017 - 09:21am PT
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1862-It happens on average every 100 years. Nothing abnormal per the long term climate history of the west coast. If rationalists were in charge of flood protection/water usage then more dams would have been built and the existing ones scrupously maintained along with the population explosion of the golden state.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 13, 2017 - 09:23am PT
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There's only so much money for everything to go around and politics play a huge part of it especially when;
The US manufactures so many bullsh!t phony wars to divert a lot of money to the Defense industry.
It's ultimately your faults for being soo stoopid to constantly letting this happen and still going on as we speak .....
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Feb 13, 2017 - 09:26am PT
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It's ultimately your faults for being soo stoopid...
you don't have any role in this, of course, except to be a public scold...
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Feb 13, 2017 - 09:31am PT
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Good point Werner.
Plug the hole with mothballed military vehicles.
#f*#kthemilitaryindustrialcomplex
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John M
climber
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Feb 13, 2017 - 09:32am PT
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Sorry Dingus.. I deleted my post because I didn't want to argue the point. I still disagree with your wording, but have pneumonia and just don't want to argue. You are substantially correct in you description of the order of things, but I still believe that there is no way that they didn't know that water was going to go over the emergency spillway. That was planned.
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John M
climber
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Feb 13, 2017 - 09:35am PT
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the news pictures now show no water coming from any hole near the emergency spillway, so there was no boil. The water was from over the top, not from under or through.
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chill
climber
The fat part of the bell-curve
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Feb 13, 2017 - 09:56am PT
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you don't have any role in this, of course, except to be a public scold... Thanks Ed, I was trying to think of how to respond to Werner's comment and you got it.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Feb 13, 2017 - 09:58am PT
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*
I've been following this hour by hour for 3-days. I was there on Saturday, ok? They took the choice to use the emergency spillway. They didn't have to.
Locals have been following this news hour by hour too..I'm not a dam operator or a hydrologist ..but ..
the dam was full,more water was coming in than going out and the spillway was damaged.. They made a call..
Damed if you do.. and.. damed it you don't....
Past history, big flood.
Downtown Sacramento
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/atmospheric-rivers-california-megaflood-lessons-from-forgotten-catastrophe/
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Feb 13, 2017 - 09:59am PT
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hey there say, ... thanks for all the shares here...
say, as this, rick:
1862-It happens on average every 100 years. Nothing abnormal per the long term climate history of the west coast.
i was wondering about that, too, the last few years...
thanks for sharing...
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Feb 13, 2017 - 10:07am PT
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Kingtut..Those are my words and thoughts.
Edit: i am not quoting any officials..and I'm using a familiar quote...Damn if you do and damn if you don't...
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