Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 28, 2006 - 11:38pm PT
|
I was watching the movie "Saving Private Ryan" last night. One of the chracters was a sniper. In WWII how far away could a sniper drop someone. What type of gun was it.
What is the distance now with todays weapons in Iraq?
What is that weapon.
That was one fine movie.
JDF
|
|
stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2006 - 11:47pm PT
|
Now it's a Barrett .50 caliber. 1000 yds+ range.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2006 - 11:49pm PT
|
NY Times: [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/22/world/middleeast/22sniper.html?hp&ex=1164258000&en=67ddd7e38efdb2ce&ei=5094&partner=homepage" target="new"]Perfect Killing Method, but Clear Targets Are Few for Marines in Iraq[/url]
|
|
mark miller
Social climber
Reno
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2006 - 11:49pm PT
|
The second hand info for a current sniper in Iraq is about 1200 meters with a .308. I'm sure the German infantry snipers were pretty lethal at 800 meters. I'm sure Ronbo has a better idea. I've got a freind with a .338 sniper rifle and 1500 meters is well within his range shooting targets.
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2006 - 11:55pm PT
|
1500 Meters thats close to a mile. Whats the velocity.
JDF
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Nov 28, 2006 - 11:56pm PT
|
SPR;
actor: Barry Pepper
weapon likely 1903 Springfield, bolt action .30-06
round performs better than the scopes then
effective range 1000m+
Current sniper kill range record is just under 2.5km made by a Canadian in Afghanistan using a .50BMG
.50BMG is just another genius cartridge design from John Moses Browning
There is a common misconception that the best shot is the best sniper, where in fact the more important skill is bushcraft.
The most common error in the actual shooting is incorrect estimation of range.
Source: Peter Kokalis, weapons editor Soldier of Fortune
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2006 - 12:13am PT
|
The scenes in Saving Private Ryan in which he is praying to God to guide his hand are f*#king classic.
I have to get the DVD.
Do you guys know if the German soldier they let go is the one that later stabbed the guy from Brooklyn. They should have shot him.
And the landing on the beach. Its sad that one can still live for a while with their guts hanging out. I wonder if they medics just shot them full of a fatal dose of Morphine.
JDF
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2006 - 12:31am PT
|
The german soldier released later shoots the Hanks character then in turn is shot by the "translator" (who had pussied out earlier) and he then tells the others to go.
|
|
JEM
Social climber
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2006 - 01:03am PT
|
http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/1903snip.htm
The M1C sniper rifle with M82 (Unertal) sight was reasonably effective from 400-600 yards, but not beyond. With most of the Korean peninsula covered by a complicated array of hills and ridges, much of the action necessarily took place between those ridges, especially after the war had settled into a static defense of fortified positions. Using the M1903A1/Unertl combination, Marine snipers registered a number of 1,000 yard kills, a very impressive improvement. Nevertheless, in late 1951, the weapon was declared "Limited Standard" and replaced with the M1C, for many of the reasons the M1903A1 had been replaced with the M1.
|
|
ryanb
climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2006 - 01:54am PT
|
"Enemy at the Gates" is a good sniper movie about the Russian front of the same war.
|
|
Anastasia
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2006 - 01:54am PT
|
It is about patience man... Patience...
How long will you wait for the perfect shot?
I know one Vietnam vet that waited in a tree for two months for his target.
When a boy took his daughter out on her first date, he mentioned to the lad that he had patience.
I don't know if the kid understood what he meant.
AF
|
|
le_bruce
climber
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2006 - 02:03am PT
|
I had a friend who was a junior olympic, medal-winning target shooter (300m) in S. Korea in the late 80's. When he turned the necessary age, he was brought into the military and groomed to be a sniper. So disenchanted with the idea of killing others was he that he began secretly chain-smoking. The minute shakes it introduced into his system got him out of the sniper program, and into the grunt program. A few years later he was finishing high school in sunny California, having never shot a soul.
He could twist an apple into two pieces, vertically along the core. Ever tried that? He got more red and yellow cards on our hs soccer team than one would think possible. Never saw him lose an arm-wrestling match either. Couldn't have weighed more than 98 lbs.
|
|
TradIsGood
Fun-loving climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2006 - 09:07am PT
|
I know one Vietnam vet that waited in a tree for two months for his target.
The logistics of this exercise must be interesting.
;-)
|
|
elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2006 - 09:12am PT
|
"What ya gotta do, Singer, is wait for 'em to come all the way out of the hole and rear up. Them Blamo! Bust 'em open like a paint can.
Then I'll go eat 'em..."
|
|
ice ninja
Mountain climber
pittsburgh, pa
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2006 - 10:07am PT
|
Ah, I love these talks.
M24 is a modified remington vermit rifle. It is what the army uses now. Very good rifle. Long action, floating bull barrel, adjustable trigger and the rifling is rails and not grooves.
The M21, I think that is what it was called, is a modified M14 from the early vietnam era. Glass beded floating barrel. Synthetic fiberglass stock.
A really accurate sniper team can hit a target at 1200 meters.
A very lucky or very very talented team can hit at 1600 meters. That is one mile.
Most only hit between 800-900 meters.
The problem is calling wind, getting the angle right for distance (think triganometry) and just being able to see the target. Some targets get so small that the cross hairs actually cover them!
A 50 cal can hit 2 miles a way. Again I think it is more about seeing the target than actually hitting it.
Pete was right. Every sniper is an expert marksman but not every marksman can be a sniper. It is much more difficult to get into place, to plan where and how to enter a hide and how to plan an escape.
2 months for a target... Something is a bit exaggerated about that story. Maybe he was waiting at base till some target was coming in the area. No one was in a hide waiting for a specific target to just waltz by.
It is extremely stressful because you can't move and often you are being pounded by the sun. Often times you are in pain from lying on the same branch for hours but can't shift at all.
But what do I know.
|
|
ice ninja
Mountain climber
pittsburgh, pa
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2006 - 10:11am PT
|
I'll add one more part just to give a good description of how hard these guys got it in Iraq.
You can't just know how you move and how you will execute your skills. You have to be able to project how the enemy will move in, how they will react and when is the best time to hit.
That could be to maximize what targets are reduced or the maximal psychological damage.
|
|
iceokie
Ice climber
Memphis, TN
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2006 - 10:25am PT
|
No movie so you'll have to pick up a book . . . check out "Marine Sniper," the true story of Carlos Hathcock a sniper in the Vietnam era. I worked with him at the NRA and he was the real deal. Never talked much about it, but he did say the book was factual. I believe he had the most confirmed strikes of any sniper before or since that time.
Interestingly, the book deals more with the "sneak" and the setup than with the shot as has been said already.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Nov 29, 2006 - 10:36am PT
|
Hathcock only had 93 confirmed kills. Many have notched more, but it was the nature of his work, getting in and then out where nobody could that made his legend.
Also I think that his 2000 yard shot on the guy by the river may have been the first use of the .50BMG as a sniper round.
I gave my copy of Marine Sniper to Jello.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!