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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 10, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
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A friend and I were just discussing the Fifty Classic Climbs, and I mentioned I would like to see the modern version. On the original list is nothing outside of the Western US, nothing from Mexico, nothing from Nevada. Have any of the climbing mags done an article like this?
Speaking only for my area of familiarity, I would probably substitute at least one of the long wonderful routes in Red Rocks for one of the California routes.
I haven't climbed on it but people are always RAVING about the Incredible Hulk. Which of the 50 would you remove to include your favorite Hulk route? It seems like the Regular route on Fairview and the East Buttress of Middle Cathedral are similar enough that one of them could go.
And I understand there are some fantastic long routes in El Potero Chico. Is there a Classic there that people would want to see included?
it would be interesting to hear from people who have DONE the routes why they might substitute something else.
Alaska and the Yukon
Mount Saint Elias, Abruzzi Ridge
Mount Fairweather, Carpé Ridge
Mount Hunter, West Ridge
Denali, Cassin Ridge
Moose’s Tooth, West Ridge
Mount Huntington, West Face 5.9 A2 with “severe snow and ice”
Mount Logan, Hummingbird Ridge
Middle Triple Peak, East Buttress VI 5.9 A3
Western Canada
Mount Sir Donald, Northwest Arete III 5.2
Bugaboo Spire, East Ridge III 5.7
South Howser Tower, West Buttress V 5.8 A2 or 5.10
Mount Robson, Wishbone Arete V 5.6
Mount Edith Cavell, North Face IV 5.7
Mount Alberta, Japanese Route V 5.6
Mount Temple, East Ridge IV 5.7
Mount Waddington, South Face V 5.7
Devils Thumb, East Ridge IV 5.6
Lotus Flower Tower V 5.8 A2 or 5.10
The Pacific Northwest
Mount Rainier, Liberty Ridge
Forbidden Peak, West Ridge II 5.6
Mount Shuksan, Price Glacier
Slesse Mountain, Northeast Buttress V 5.9 A2
Mount Stuart, North Ridge III 5.9
Liberty Bell Mountain, Liberty Crack V 5.9 A3
Wyoming
Devil’s Tower, Durrance Route II 5.6-5.7
Grand Teton, North Ridge IV 5.7
Grand Teton, Direct Exum Ridge III 5.6
Grand Teton, North Face IV 5.8
Mount Moran, Direct South Buttress IV 5.7 A3
Pingora, Northeast Face IV 5.8
Wolf's Head, East Ridge II 5.5
Colorado
Crestone Needle, Ellingwood Ledges III 5.7
Hallett Peak, Northcutt-Carter Route III 5.7
Petit Grepon, South Face III 5.7
Longs Peak, The Diamond, D1 V 5.7 A4 or 5.12a
The Southwest
Shiprock, III 5.7 A2 or 5.9
Castleton Tower, Kor-Ingalls Route III 5.9
Fisher Towers, The Titan, Finger of Fate, IV 5.8 A3
California
The Royal Arches, Royal Arches Route III 5.6 A1 or 5.9
Lost Arrow Spire, Spire Chimney III 5.5 A3 or 5.10 A2
Sentinel Rock, Steck-Salathe Route V 5.9 A3
Middle Cathedral Rock, East Buttress IV 5.9 A1 or 5.10
Half Dome, Northwest Face VI 5.9 A3 or 5.12
El Capitan, Nose Route VI 5.11 A3
El Capitan, Salathé Wall VI 5.10 A3
Mount Whitney, East Face III 5.7
Fairview Dome, North Face III-IV 5.9
Clyde Minaret, Southeast Face IV 5.8
Charlotte Dome, South Face III 5.7
Lover's Leap, Traveler Buttress II 5.9
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RyanD
climber
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Jan 10, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
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Cool thread idea phylp.
Haven't climbed enough to chime in but would say any little or unrepeated climbs get removed and updated since classics should have some confirmation to be deemed as such. At this point there is much more consensus.
Probably add ironman traverse and nix hummingbird ridge for starters ;-)
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SethKane
Ice climber
Bozeman, MT
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Jan 10, 2016 - 06:04pm PT
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I've always thought the Black Canyon, Zion, Red Rocks, EPC, Elephants Perch, and The Squamish Chief along with some long pure ice route were notably missing from that list. I am also slightly opposed to having multiple routes on the same formation (3 routes on the Grand?).
This website is pretty cool and I mostly agree with their suggestions:
http://lamountaineers.org/NAC/browserf/other/misc/whyroute.htm
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 10, 2016 - 06:12pm PT
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Phyl-
The Northcutt-Carter Route on Hallet Peak no longer exists in the form in which described. Massive rockfall eliminated the lower portion--it simply fell off! I did the route in 1961 with Layton Kor, and it WAS a true classic climb. So...it needs to be replaced on the list.
I've not climbed in the Red Rocks, but there are several routes there that would certainly qualify!
Added in edit: Is Shiprock still "off limits" with the Navajo Tribe? If so, it needs to drop off the list for legal/social reasons.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 10, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
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Crestone Needle, LOL. Bring yer hoe.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
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Jan 10, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
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Sierras
Carl Heller east arête Class "3" (lower 5th class)
3rd Pillar Mt. Dana III 5.10a ish
Lucky Streaks III 10b
Crescent Arch II 5.9+
Whitney Portal
Ghostrider IV 10c
Suicide rock
Sundance II 10b
Moondance II 11b
Insomnia 11b+
Tahquitz
The Vampire II 11b
The Edge 11b
The Flakes 11b
Joshua Tree
Figures on a Landscape 10c
Solid Gold 10b
Las Vegas
Yellow Brick Road III 10?
Epinephrine IV 9
The Delicate Sound of Thunder II 11a/b
Should eliminate several of those stupid snow climbs and the Royal Arches.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 10, 2016 - 07:10pm PT
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Three routes on Grand Teton is a bit "excessive" for a single peak/formation. El Cap? The Nose and Salathe need to remain. What about the RNWF on Half Dome? How much has it changed from rockfall?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 10, 2016 - 07:21pm PT
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The Royal Arches, Royal Arches Route III 5.6 A1 or 5.9
Lost Arrow Spire, Spire Chimney III 5.5 A3 or 5.10 A2
Sentinel Rock, Steck-Salathe 10B
Middle Cathedral Rock, East Buttress IV 5.9 A1 or 5.10
Half Dome, Northwest Face VI 5.9 A3 or 5.12
El Capitan, Nose Route VI 5.9 C2
El Capitan, Salathé Wall VI 5.9 C2
Mount Whitney, East Face III 5.7
Fairview Dome, North Face III-III 5.9
Clyde Minaret, Southeast Face IV 5.8
Charlotte Dome, South Face III 5.7
Lover's Leap, Traveler Buttress II 5.9
Positive Vibrations, Incredible Hulk
Evolution Traverse
Astroman
for modern 'classics'
Whodunnit, Tahquitz
Third Pillar of Dana
The Vampire, Tahquitz
more reasonable climbs
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 10, 2016 - 07:30pm PT
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The origional list is heavy on aid climbs and light on 5.10 free climbs and has no big ice routes. keep it for what it is. A great story book. i always read it for the storys. when it comes to climbing make your own list :)
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jan 10, 2016 - 08:07pm PT
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I'd say get rid of Ellingwood ledges on Crestone Needle--it's like
a one move climb, and it's not 5.7.
Maybe the Prow on Kit Carson. Rated 5.7, more like a 5.6 boulder
move, then moderate climbing with tons of exposure. Loads of fun.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Jan 10, 2016 - 08:28pm PT
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East Face of Whitney & Royal Arches can go. No longer classic with so much really great stuff out there.
I agree with one per area or formation.
You could go with the top 50 places to climb and do the most popular route at each.
Oddly that would put Finger Trip at Tahquitz and Three Pigs at Stoney Point on the list.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2016 - 08:40pm PT
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Thanks for that link Sethkane. They address the point Brokefown and others made about why certain routes should be removed in a 2016 version.
I think you are all making interesting comments. Weston I agree with your post.
Take out Royal Arches for sure. So many other choices for a long easy route.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 10, 2016 - 08:45pm PT
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That list should not be altered, imo.
Not so much "should not be altered," as "can't be altered."
It was published in 1979, which means it was written in the mid-to-late 70s -- almost 40 years ago. "Updating" it is simply not possible. Might have been possible in 1985, but the climbing landscape in North America is so different now that it is far too late to update the Fifty Classics.
In fact, even trying to come up with a 2016 version of "Fifty Classic Climbs of North America" doesn't make sense. "Fifty Classic Multi-pitch Rock Climbs of the Eastern Sierras" maybe. Or "...of the Canadian Rockies" or "...of Alaska"
Still, ya gotta try, doncha?
But before we get to fisticuffs, there need to be some rules set. Rock? Multi-pitch only? Ice? Alpine? Sport? (is there even such a thing as a "classic" sport climb?) Aid?
Seriously Phyl, ya gotta set some rules. Otherwise, I'm going to come up with something like "Fifty Classic Ice Climbs Within Half an Hour of Field."
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jan 10, 2016 - 08:55pm PT
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Convert the book to metric. Then you could have the 80 classic climbs.
You'd still have the same fights, though.
And if you want to add three pitch routes, it opens up a lot on the East coast.
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T?S
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Jan 10, 2016 - 09:22pm PT
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Positive Vibrations is the best route I have ever done.
And I think this grade is a nice sweet spot for a more modern list. Long 5.11 routes, maybe even a few 5.12 routes could be in order. Anything harder is clearly out of reach for the every man. Astroman and Rostrum come to mind in this class.
Fishhook Arete may deserve a nod. Or any of the classics on Russell. That is such an unbelievable summit.
Temple crag is also an obnoxiously good summit and overall hike/experience. Which one goes on the list? Dark Star is longer and harder, but I've heard complaints that it gets to feel like a slogfest, whereas I really enjoyed sun-ribbon, and the unique tyrollean kinda puts it in a class of its own.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jan 10, 2016 - 09:24pm PT
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Sounds like an unrewarding project. Go out and do new stuff.
;>)
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jan 10, 2016 - 10:12pm PT
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No updating makes sense until we recall the principles that guided Roper and Steck to begin with. Perhaps an update should occur within the framework they described, or perhaps the framework itself needs revision. As noted in the quotes below, there are no climbs done after 1970 in the book. In a few years the 50 CC's will be 50 years old.
Of course, a classic is, or should be, a classic, the timelessness of the experience being on of the defining characteristics. So if Roper and Steck have done their job well, there should be little to delete. Perhaps some of the routes, now with close to another 50 years of hindsight, have indeed lost some of their luster. Perhaps even entire ranges---the Tetons come to mind---are no longer at central to the North American climbing experience as they once were. But by and large, it seems to me that what is needed now is 100 CC's; the 50 we already have, give or take a few, and fifty more done in the period from 1970 to, say, 2000 (see the quotes below on the subject of eliminating what might be called "instant classics.")
Here are some of the principles they appealed to. Everything past here is a quote from 50 CC's.
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Three basic criteria: the peak or route should look striking from afar, have a significant climbing history, and offer excellent climbing.
As a rule, excellent climbing should take precedence over general appearance, which in turn should outweigh historical significance.
Predictably, however, after determining that excellent climbing should take precedence over history and appearance, we began to make exceptions...[for example] the North Face Route on the Grand Teton...although the climbing on the north face is not extraordinary, the fame, history, and ruggedness of the wall made it obligatory for our list.
In choosing the climbs, we also decided that a number of years should have elapsed since the first ascent of a route so that we could discern whether the route has continued to attract climbers or was simply a passing fad. [First published in 1979, the list contains no route done after 1970.]
Reluctantly, we decided that climbs shorter than 500 feet would not be considered...Unfortunately, so many fine two and three-pitch routes are found in North America that their representation would have been limited to only a paragraph and a photograph for each. True to form, however, we found exceptions. Devil's Tower and the Lost Arrow, for example...
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jan 10, 2016 - 10:16pm PT
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The question arises almost immediately as to the prospective audience! Are we going to fill it up with climbs that only the super-elite, 120 pound, 24 year old dirtbaggers can do, OR are we talking about routes that most seriously dedicated and experienced climbers can realistically aspire to doing? I am against a book of Fairy Tales and mostly wishful thinking! Classic, to me, means routes done more than just once under ideal weather and ice conditions; on the other hand I'm not talking about "Trade Routes," either.
Alas! Production of such books usually leads to degradation and possibly destruction of routes. i.e. Nose on El Cap; whoda' thunk it, that disposal of human wastes would become a major issue, back when the original Steck-Roper was written?
All of that said, I still aspire to a couple of the routes contained therin: Petit Grepon, Fairview, Bugaboo Spire East Ridge, just to name a few. Yeah, and the Grand Teton Direct Exum Ridge; forget the other 2.
Added in edit, since my post was being written as RGold had his posted. I would agree that any update should be more of an expansion than pruning and editing away. Climbs from other areas need to be included; the uber classic "Great Arch" on North Carolina's Stone Mountain leaps to my mind immediately. Not very hard, but it is--or was originally--long enough to consider w/r to number of pitches.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2016 - 10:28pm PT
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Thanks RGold, I was just about to post that...
I just looked it up on Wiki to remind myself (do not own a copy of the book any longer).
The criteria themselves are interesting. I had forgotten about the 500 foot rule, which certainly eliminates thousands of phenomenal routes. (Like many on DEE E's list)
Since we're so many years on, "history" and "endurance" rather than a "passing fad" have evolved too. Much new experience has been accumulated.
This came up because a friend from England who posts here (I'll let him chime in for himself), was saying he had an idea to structure a road trip around completing some of the "fifty classics" that were within his reach. He likes long crack routes.
And my comment was, well with limited time, are those REALLY the routes you should bother to do in those areas. Or are those even the areas you should go to. Of course the Valley is great, but if I had one day there I would much prefer to do Serenity/Sons over Royal Arches. It seems like a more "classic" Valley route to do because it's got more crack nature to it. If I were good enough to do Astroman, maybe I would pick that
And if I had one day in the Meadows, I would rather do Cathedral Peak or Lucky Streaks than the Regular route on Fairview.
I haven't seen the book mentioned, "Fifty favorite climbs". Will have to take a look at that list...
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2016 - 10:40pm PT
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Just to say, I have not enough travels to other areas to make up a list myself.
I just thought it would be nice to have more climbing threads on the front page.
But this probably would be useful for visitors to the US:
"50 best long free climbs of North America for the 5.6-5.8 climber"
"...for the 5.9-5.10 climber"
...for the 5.11-5.12 climber"
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