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Matt's
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 10, 2015 - 08:34am PT
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does yosar charge for helicopter transport to el cap meadow? If so, when will they find out the bill?
I was under the impression that they did not charge, unless it was determined that the climbers involved had been negligent.
(Not a hypothetical question, I am asking for a friend-- thank you for real replies).
best,
matt
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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Nov 10, 2015 - 12:36pm PT
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Are U Just checking out how much it's going to cost you. Better start saving LOOT $$,###.00
Proper Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Nov 10, 2015 - 12:41pm PT
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You only have to pay if you are charged with gross negligence and found guilty by the judge. This has happened a very, very few number of times.
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John M
climber
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Nov 10, 2015 - 12:45pm PT
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I believe that this is up to date, but am not certain.
http://www.friendsofyosar.org/safety/climbingSafety.html
Who Pays for Rescues?
The taxpayer does; the NPS does not charge for the cost of rescues, except for any ambulance services required.This is true even if you are fined by the courts for negligence, which is a separate charge altogether (see below). But rescues can be expensive and what the future holds is anybody’s guess. The NPS is examining the possibility of charging all victims for the full cost of their rescues, and partial costs are charged in some parks now. This issue is complex, but it is clear that responsible behavior by those who use the park will minimize the threat.
RISK, RESPONSIBILITY, and the LIMITS to CLIMBING
The NPS has no regulations specifying how you must climb. There is one regulation, however, requiring that all park users act responsibly. This applies to climbers, in that the consequences of your actions put rescuers and other climbers at risk. One rescuer has been killed in the park, so far. Thus, if your own negligence got you in trouble, you may be charged with “creating a hazardous condition” for others. As an example, a climber was fined because he became stranded by a hailstorm while attempting to free-solo the Steck-Salathé on Sentinel Rock. Storms had been predicted, and his rescue should not have been necessary.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Nov 10, 2015 - 02:36pm PT
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unless it was determined that the climbers involved had been negligent
if u light a park fire then it gets outta hand then u'll have to pay for the helicopter and crew!!! don't do what Pyro did..6k that I could have used
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Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
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Nov 10, 2015 - 03:51pm PT
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it was story with Googlemochy [sp?] who and his friend rappelling from El Cap and being rescued and later charges with negligence.
I think he got a fine from judge, but was not directly charged for amount of heli rescue
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Nov 10, 2015 - 04:12pm PT
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Call uber SAR for a better rate.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Nov 10, 2015 - 04:31pm PT
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Matt,
As above, no charge for rescue within Yosemite unless there is gross negligence (which there was not in this accident).
But the bill for "air ambulance" from Yosemite to Merced/Fresno, and Merced/Fresno to Stanford, that could be a very big bill.
Let the insurance company pay what they normally do and don't pay the balance if billed for that.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 10, 2015 - 04:42pm PT
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There's no free ride ever.
We all pay in direct and indirect ways ......
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Nov 10, 2015 - 04:45pm PT
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Paging Vegasclimber... They charged him a ridiculous fee for his air ambulance transport...
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Matt's
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2015 - 04:55pm PT
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thanks everyone for the replies.
best,
matt
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Nov 10, 2015 - 05:07pm PT
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$900 EMS fee to be longlined to El Cap meadow. $31k to Modesto. Gladly paid. Insurance covered the $31k completely. $900 went toward deductible.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 10, 2015 - 06:40pm PT
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Met a hiker who suffered a badly broken leg up by Vogelsang and her
medevac bill was $41K! You could rent a Gulfstream for 5 hours for that!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Nov 10, 2015 - 07:23pm PT
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Private air ambulances have spiraling out of control costs currently. They are due for a major correction.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Nov 10, 2015 - 07:26pm PT
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Met a hiker who suffered a badly broken leg up by Vogelsang and her
medevac bill was $41K! You could rent a Gulfstream for 5 hours for that!
Yes indeed.
Medevac suppliers will provide a convincing litany of why their true costs are really that high, just like hospitals and snake bite anti-venom suppliers.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Nov 10, 2015 - 09:10pm PT
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The problem is that from the start, way back when, astronomical charges have been charged for anything having to do with a helicopter. Insurance, pilot fees, up keep, etc. What makes these "true" costs is that they have gotten away with collecting these absurd fees and charges. Ergo a 90 mile, 45-minute ride runs a cool 33 grand or some such rot. It's all just people cooking the books.
JL
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 10, 2015 - 09:29pm PT
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Largo, I beg to differ. Me long-suffering Mum got a bill from the helo company for my first
rescue that came to a grand total of $175! What a bargain, even if corrected for inflation!
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Nov 10, 2015 - 09:42pm PT
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I think this thread sums it up pretty well. basically you won't get charged by the NPS unless you're charged with a criminal act, usually "Creating a hazardous condition". You could also be charged civilly by the federal government if there is associated resource destruction.
However, there is a very good chance that you'll end up on a private ambulance or helicopter that will charge an arm and a leg.
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The Chief
climber
Down the hill & across the Valley from......
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Nov 10, 2015 - 10:07pm PT
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BITD... We at NAS Lemoore SAR ("Angels") NEVER collected a dime for our services.
It was our job that your tax money paid for. AND, we ALL did it, gladly and selflessly.
"So that Others May Live!"
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Nov 11, 2015 - 07:27am PT
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Largo, i'd like to hear you complain if you or someone you loved was critical and needed to get to a major care facility IN A HURRY. Let me know how that goes.
It's not just the helicopter field that's crazy out-of-control expensive, it's the whole medical industry. Someone gave me some very good advice after my accident: don't pay anything for 5 or 6 months. That gives the insurance companies and medical facilities time to reach equilibrium with their billing/payment. After 5 months i started getting collection notices. I added up all that i was required to pay and it was almost exactly my annual out-of-pocket. I grabbed a phone and credit card and paid it all in a few minutes.
The $900 EMS fee was paid directly to the NPS and gladly so. I had a hemo-thorax happening and it wouldn't have been long before it turned in to a tension hemo-thorax which would have meant curtains for moi. The SAR person that ventilated my lung prolly saved my life. $900? Oh darn.
There are far more serious things to consider here, like added anchors on the Book of Revelations or whether the republicans are wrong about everything.
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