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Blight
Social climber
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Oct 20, 2006 - 06:51am PT
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Ah, the holy books of our newest and daftest religion.
What larks.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Oct 20, 2006 - 08:39am PT
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My bookmark library grows.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Oct 20, 2006 - 09:43am PT
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Hey, thanks for that Ouch. He's my hero. A smart, rationale, and humble man. I recently re-read the Origin of Species (1859) and was blown away by how rationale and persuasive it is. In spite of the plethora of additional evidence for evolution since his time, I would contend all you need to do is read this book to grasp 95% of the theory as we know it today.
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Blight
Social climber
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Oct 20, 2006 - 09:59am PT
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Uh, evidence?
You do know that it's never been observed, its mechanism is unknown and it's never been replicated in the lab, right?
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raymond phule
climber
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Oct 20, 2006 - 10:05am PT
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Blight, you are a real fundamentalist. Go back and read Josh McDowell and Ravi Zacharias. That would make you good.
What about you given a single evidence that supports God?
edit: Thanks for the links Ouch! and LEB.
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Aya
Uncategorizable climber
New York
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Oct 20, 2006 - 10:18am PT
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I'm with eeyonkee.
I had read Origin of Species back in high school, but didn't go back to it until a year or two into my PhD in Ecology & Evolutionary biology. I was pretty blown away by how Darwin covered pretty much everything waaaaaaay back when.
Personally, I detest reading stuff online. Most papers, I'll print out - one sided, and try use the backs for scrap paper just to assuage my guilt. I print out my own stuff, too, for editing. Somehow it's just so much easier without all the scrolling, the flickering, and with a pen in hand.
Cute troll, Blight, if somewhat predictable and banal.
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Blight
Social climber
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Oct 20, 2006 - 10:23am PT
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"Blight, you are a real fundamentalist. Go back and read Josh McDowell and Ravi Zacharias. That would make you good."
What about you given a single evidence that supports God?"
What on earth are you talking about?
Who said anything about God? And who are the people you mentioned? I'm not a creationist, if that's what you're getting at.
Oh, and no troll by the way, just facts: there really isn't any scientific evidence for the mechanism of evolution.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Oct 20, 2006 - 10:35am PT
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Blight, You are uninformed. Evolution is about as far from a religious belief as can be. And there are thousands of separate pieces of evidence for it. It is THE unifying concept in all of biology. My opinion is that people who do not "believe" in it are just plain ignorant.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Oct 20, 2006 - 10:38am PT
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"Uh, evidence?
You do know that it's never been observed, its mechanism is unknown and it's never been replicated in the lab, right?"
No dice blight! plenty of evidence and observations. Please address the following; drug ressistant bacteria, Breeds of dogs,cultivated roses, bioengeniered food, your appendex, cataloges of foramanifera evolution,, Homo erectus, monoterems, Archeopterix in solenhofen limestone (lizards with feathers), the ontoloigical developmentof the human fetus.
You guys always bury your head in the sand on these topics.
The onus is on YOU babe!
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Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
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Oct 20, 2006 - 10:40am PT
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I am right now working my way through a new book, "The Plausibility of Life-resolving Darwin's dilemma" by Mark Kirchner and John Gerhart. A good challenge for me as I have not really studied biology before. This was given to me by Anji, my son's older sister, (Chappy's daughter by the way) who is half way through a PHD in evolutionary biology at Harvard. She is studying gene expression in a favorite flower, the Columbine. We are all very proud of her as a Yosemite kid who is crankin academically. I am about to visit her and am trying to bone up on her world in evo-devo. Anyhow, the thesis of the book is to describe "facilitated variation" as filling in some key missing pieces from Darwin's theory. Seemingly, one motivation for this publication now is to solidly refute the "intellegent design" camp.
Peter
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Aya
Uncategorizable climber
New York
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Oct 20, 2006 - 10:47am PT
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Congrats to Anji, Maysho - phew. I could never get a handle on that evo-devo stuff... too much stuff involving things I can't really directly see for me. I'm always impressed by people studying it, regardless of where they are. I really think the future of a lot of things (for example, drugs?) lies in that sort of integration between genetics, evolution, etc. Always preferred the warm fuzzy stuff myself, of course (though to be fair I ended up studying cold slimy stuff in the Hudson River).
Blight - If "there's no evidence for evolution" isn't a troll, I don't know what is!
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Oct 20, 2006 - 10:51am PT
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In retrospect, I totally agree with you Aya, a troll...and I bit. Good posts by all of the non-trolls!
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Aya
Uncategorizable climber
New York
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Oct 20, 2006 - 10:52am PT
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And in restrospect, myself, I used the word "stuff" a lot. Oh well... time for another cup of coffee, I guess.
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Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
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Oct 20, 2006 - 11:00am PT
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Thanks Aya, maybe trolls evolved from cold slimey stuff in the Hudson River!
It seems like it won't be long before they can follow the evolution of gene expression in plants to target searches for effective compounds for drug development, improving greatly on the "shotgun" and more random plant testing they do today.
Peter
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Blight
Social climber
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Oct 20, 2006 - 11:02am PT
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"Please address the following; drug ressistant bacteria, Breeds of dogs,cultivated roses, bioengeniered food, your appendex"
I'll make it quick, I'm busy this afternoon:
Drug resistant bacteria are not evidence of evolution because the genetic material which enables them to adapt to their environment is already inside them. No new genetic material appears, and that is crucial to evolution.
Breeds of dogs did not evolve, we created them by selective breeding. Evolution is supposed to work by itself.
Cultivated roses? As above.
Bioengineered food? As above.
Your appendix is not vestigial, it's part of your lymphatic system.
Cataloges of foramanifera evolution? Fossils are not observations of evolution happening. Those animals died millions of years ago.
Homo Erectus? Show me observations of homo erectus turing into homo sapiens and I'll be happy. If you can't observe it happening, you have the problem I mentioned.
Monoterems? I take it you mean monotremes. What about them? Has someone seen them evolve all of a sudden?
Archeopterix? Again, so what? The last Archeopterix died millions of years ago and nobody has any evidence what it evolved from or what it evolved into. That's not evolution!
Last but not least, the human fetus does not evolve, it grows.
*sigh*
Alright, I'll tell you what. You seem confused (not to mention a bit uninformed). I'll lay it out for you.
Show me empirical evidence of any species acquiring, without any deliberate manipulation, a new organ or limb, and I'll be happy.
Now come on, that's what the theory of evolution says happened. So why would it be difficult to provide some simple evidence?
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 20, 2006 - 11:12am PT
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Darwin has no clear conception how the evolution is taking place, neither does he have any idea about whose evolution. He simply takes account of the body. A body never evolves.
It is the soul within the body, that evolves, transmigrates from one body to another
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Blight
Social climber
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Oct 20, 2006 - 11:15am PT
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Mmm: you don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Oct 20, 2006 - 11:19am PT
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Typically when dealing with someone who rejects evolution you aren't so much trying to convince them of evolution. You are battling their fear of death and their perceived place in the universe.
Edit: IMO of course.
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pc
climber
East of Seattle
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Oct 20, 2006 - 11:22am PT
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Not quite true Werner.
A climber evolves calluses. A cowboy evolves bow legs. Someone in the sun alot evolves tanned skin...
The clues to evolution, short, medium, and long term seem well laid out.
Edit, Oops: PC's full if sh#t. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarckism
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