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richard masonn
Big Wall climber
revelstoke BC
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 28, 2015 - 04:16pm PT
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Recently I took a small fall onto a Large Ange Petzl carabiner and it failed spectacularly on me. The gate bent completely sideways and luckily I was backed up. I contacted Petzl and they were able to recreate the failure at 1 1/2 Kn. This occurs when the sling sits at the base of the gate at a slight angle as shown in the video. A solution was not offered, only an explanation that this could occur with any carabiner. I have never seen this occur before in my 15 years of climbing and I was unable to recreate the event with any of my other carabiners, which so easily seems to occur with the petzl ange (scary!). I have discontinued use of these quickdraws and would like to warn others of the potential dangers of using this carabiner.
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richard masonn
Big Wall climber
revelstoke BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2015 - 04:17pm PT
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Rollover
climber
Gross Vegas
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Jul 28, 2015 - 04:22pm PT
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Not good..
Wish they still made the original Spirit..
:(
Glad you are ok!!!
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jul 28, 2015 - 04:24pm PT
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First of all, I'm glad you are OK.
But could you clarify the cirsumstances as best you can again. Do you think your rope was rubbing against the gate causing it to vibrate open?
edit; I missed the last post of yours; the vid. Sh#t,
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richard masonn
Big Wall climber
revelstoke BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2015 - 04:28pm PT
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here is the pic petzl sent me demonstrating how the sling can get caught on the gate
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jul 28, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
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Jingus.
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richard masonn
Big Wall climber
revelstoke BC
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2015 - 04:29pm PT
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basicly, it gets caught like that, you fall and the sling pulls the gate open, bends it sideways and comes off
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Jul 28, 2015 - 04:32pm PT
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Thanks for posting that up Richard.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Jul 28, 2015 - 04:36pm PT
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That's some scary sh!#. My buddy uses those draws all the time, I'll have to warn him about this,
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rwedgee
Ice climber
CA
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Jul 28, 2015 - 04:38pm PT
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It's just like your knee, not meant to go sideways but very strong along its intended axis. Those don't even look very durable. Just the fragile looks scare me away. Are they super light ?
Glad yer not gunna die....just yet.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jul 28, 2015 - 04:48pm PT
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I think that would happen with most wire gate biners if the draw or sling sideloads the gate. Your job is to rig your gear so that doesn't happen.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 28, 2015 - 04:52pm PT
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I think that would happen with most wire gate biners if the draw or sling sideloads the gate. Your job is to rig your gear so that doesn't happen.
climbing gear ain't magic. You want the cool thin sh#t you gotta think around how it works, like girth hitching dyneema.
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ruppell
climber
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Jul 28, 2015 - 05:10pm PT
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Looks like Petzl needs to add a keeper to the top draw as well as the rope side draw. What a sh#t design.
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couchmaster
climber
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Jul 28, 2015 - 05:36pm PT
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Haha, I think I almost just turned back to the Cosmic way:-) Was out aid climbing a bit ago on a longer stranger line and noticed that it's easy to jingus up a biner. Fella I was climbing with had the old school fat biners. I had the new light as a womans thong things. I have a crapload of the baby Camps that Chris likes, and a bunch of lightweight Wild Country helium and Nitros as well.
The baby Camps, just looking at a worn one while way up off the deck and your body weight is on it and it's laying strange on the rock: whew. Old and fat isn't just my body type any more, think I prefer the old school biners as I got a warm fuzzy given how much material there was. Unfortunately, I'd long ago sold almost every fat one I own. I have @ 10 on my Toprope only rack. I remember getting a buck each for my beater Eiger Ovals (think I paid $2.00 for them brand new), tried to dissuade my buddy Mike from buying them as they only tested 1800 lbs (closed) when new and they'd seen some pretty solid mileage, but he said "hey, I'm only using them for aid, doesn't matter". Haha.
Thanks for the heads up on the Petzl. I have a policy to not to be an early adopter and buy new Black Diamond and new Petzl items which this incident reinforces. If that had been a first draw on some of those super high first bolt Smith Routes, OMlord.....could have been ugly. Needs a o'ring/string on the upper end as well.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Jul 28, 2015 - 05:38pm PT
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Thank you for the warning, but I think it really is the same issue with any wire gate.
I have a bunch of wire gates and have been using them for years with no issue, but I only use them in a specific way. On quickdraws I use them on the rope end of the draw with a position keeper type draw so the biner can't move. I also have my whole rack racked on the ange for weight considerations but I clip a variety of types of quickdraws and slings to those when placed, under many circumstances.
It is a good warning though. Ovals are pretty bombproof but they are heavier and harder to clip on overhanging sport routes. That matters to some people.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Jul 28, 2015 - 05:47pm PT
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Thanks, Richard. I'm sticking with the Spirits.
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overwatch
climber
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Jul 28, 2015 - 05:49pm PT
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Is it just me or is that one funky looking carabiner?
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