Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 5, 2015 - 05:10pm PT
|
A lot of forum members ask questions or otherwise discuss health related issues, so I'm not so sure this is way OT. After all how can you climb if you're not pretty healthy?
I just read this article. I know some other neurologist who have been barking up this tree as well. Breakthrough or junk science..?
http://www.businessinsider.com/vagus-nerve-stimulation-2015-6
|
|
Ward Trotter
Trad climber
|
|
The V nerve has been getting a lot of attention in recent years--- so has the central importance of gut health, which is also linked to a proper functioning relationship between the brain and the intestinal tract via the V nerve.
Some researchers are currently pursuing the link that may be found between gut health, diet, the Vagus nerve, and autoimmune disorders--- like Rhuematoid Arthritis, as well as many other conditions and immune dysregulations; even psychological conditions.
I hope they strike the mother lode of hitherto unknown underlying connections revealing how the body actually works --- and start providing sustainable protocols to r improved health instead of the default mode of cramming sufferers full of only symptom-treating drugs ad infinitum.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2015 - 09:24pm PT
|
Ward. The fellow I mentioned at UCLA has been a big force in the whole idea about gut that you brought up.
Emeron Mayer
I met this man when a friend arranged a hike of "Cactus to Clouds" on San Jacinto. Emeron was a friend of his. As we hiked we talked about my unique neurological issues and the direction he sent me in was remarkable.
His work is not the same, but related to the findings in the article I posted.
Essentially the Chinese had it right in the Chakras. The center of the body in so many ways is the conscious center. The gut, as we ingloriously refer to it, has the largest concentration of enervated tissue outside of our skull.
|
|
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
Vagal nerve modulation has been used by traditional western medicine for disease control for many decades.
It's now new and it's not a breakthrough.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2015 - 10:20pm PT
|
traditional western medicine..
I'm open, please explain.
|
|
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
I'm open, please explain.
Regular medical doctors, the kind you typically find in the USA, with M.D. after their names, like me.
We commonly use vagal nerve stimulation during "codes" and with cardiac arrhythmias, especially in children.
The gut, as we ingloriously refer to it, has the largest concentration of enervated tissue outside of our skull.
There are far more neurons in the gut than in the brain. And we understand so very little of it.
|
|
MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
|
|
Hey Kris - thanks for the link and info - I have a gut feeling that a lot of Maidy's pain is due to this - I have massaged her neck for 6 years and have a pretty good feel for what is going on.
Really appreciated.
Erik
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there ksolem...
as to your quote here:
I just read this article. I know some other neurologist who have been barking up this tree as well. Breakthrough or junk science..?
years, back, i heard of folks at the epilepsy website, that had shared about either wanting, considering, or having had it done--as to seizure issues...
i can try and go back and find the threads???
i do not even remember, if the results were good or bad, either...
was so long back.. about 8?? years back, when i used to read or post there... (their new website was too complex, so i stopped) ...
or ask there??
but--i did not read your link, yet, i am just getting off line... so maybe you might not need this info, IF that is what the link is about??
the other posters might have more info to offer, than what i had...
:)
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
"Essentially the Chinese had it right in the Chakras. -Ksolem"
I'm open, please explain.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2015 - 10:42am PT
|
Werner will probably straighten me out on this but I'll do my best.
Ancient eastern religions saw there as being non-material centers of energy in the body. Modern interpretations focus on seven. What interests me is that the fifth (top down) is in the gut, "Manipura." This Chakra corresponds to cells in the Pancreas and links this to the Adrenal Glands.
From wiki: Key issues governed by Manipura are issues of personal power, fear, anxiety, opinion-formation, introversion, and transition from simple or base emotions to complex. Physically, Manipura governs digestion, mentally it governs personal power, emotionally it governs expansiveness, and spiritually, all matters of growth.
The Yoga teacher I see spends time trying to teach me to recognize and learn from these energies. Most of them are a stretch for me but this one seems very real.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
Thanks Ksolem. I better research the chakras.
It's going to be a challenge though to keep that open mind as I am a staunch materialist. No supernatural forces... nor... immaterial forces... in charge of this body. lol
Interesting article, however. TFPU. Bioelectronics as therapy,
that's pretty cool, pretty new age, too.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2015 - 05:49pm PT
|
This is a really interesting lecture about how bacteria "talk." This subject has profound implications for keeping our bodies well charged with good bacteria, while fighting off the pathogens. There are also big implications for future generations of antibiotics.
What also impresses me is her command of the subject.
https://www.ted.com/talks/bonnie_bassler_on_how_bacteria_communicate
|
|
phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
|
|
Back in the 90s when I was doing obesity research there were lots of publications on the link between appetite and the vagus.
Suprema has made a good point about gut bacteria and inflammation. There is a ton of current work going on in this area. The microbiome is one of the "sexiest", hottest fields of scientific study right now.
Here is one example I pulled off Pub Med on the link between the microbiome, inflammation and the vagus.
Adv Exp Med Biol. 2014;817:115-33. doi: 10.1007/978-1-4939-0897-4_5.
Vagal pathways for microbiome-brain-gut axis communication.
Forsythe P1, Bienenstock J, Kunze WA.
Abstract
There is now strong evidence from animal studies that gut microorganism can activate the vagus nerve and that such activation plays a critical role in mediating effects on the brain and behaviour. The vagus appears to differentiate between non-pathogenic and potentially pathogenic bacteria even in the absence of overt inflammation and vagal pathways mediate signals that can induce both anxiogenic and anxiolytic effects, depending on the nature of the stimulus. Certain vagal signals from the gut can instigate an anti-inflammatory reflex with afferent signals to the brain activating an efferent response, releasing mediators including acetylcholine that, through an interaction with immune cells, attenuates inflammation. This immunomodulatory role of the vagus nerve may also have consequences for modulation of brain function and mood.What is currently lacking are relevant data on the electrophysiology of the system. Certainly, important advances in our understanding of the gut-brain and microbiome- gut-brain axis will come from studies of how distinct microbial and nutritional stimuli activate the vagus and the nature of the signals transmitted to the brain that lead to differential changes in the neurochemistry of the brain and behaviour.Understanding the induction and transmission of signals in the vagus nerve may have important implications for the development of microbial-or nutrition based therapeutic strategies for mood disorders.
PMID: 24997031 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
|
|
mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
There are far more neurons in the gut than in the brain. '
What, if you have your head up your a&&?
|
|
Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
|
|
Fish is like the perfect food!
If it is/was a sustainable resource, it could cover some nutritional needs well. There are a helluva lot of human mouths on this planet. I think we need to act more thoughtful, intentional and with a wee degree of humility when we are preparing to load the dinner with what sustains us.
|
|
Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
|
|
So, more yogurt?
|
|
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
I ain't interested in healthy living
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there say, ksolem and all...
say, was just looking at the thread about depression, etc, that has surfaced, again, as of recent...
it seems that after reading about the vagus nerve, etc, that this thread might add a bit OF GOOD to that thread, as well...
so i will put a link, (so folks might like to cross on over, to here) if they want to read, over here... or not...
main thing, that i took note of, was the 'breathing and relaxing' that was mentioned...
kind of a good idea, for the depression, was:
learn to relax and you can think clearer, and your body will respond better, etc, --could also help one not feel the stress that can break one down, and make one more apt to feel depressed, too...
like to help find answers, work to help yourself learn to understand what could be wrong...
http://www.innovateus.net/innopedia/what-function-vagus-nerve
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1133733&tn=320#msg2652551
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!