Suicide by Airbus???

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Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 26, 2015 - 01:16pm PT
PARIS — The co-pilot of Germanwings flight 9525 deliberately crashed the aircraft, French officials said Thursday, pointing to voice recorder evidence that he had locked the captain out of the cockpit, ignored his pleas for re-entry and steered down into the French Alps as passengers were heard screaming.

The assertions instantly changed the nature of the Tuesday crash, which obliterated the Airbus A320 and killed all 150 aboard, into a wide-ranging criminal investigation that focused on the co-pilot, a 27-year-old German with no obvious reason to commit mass murder, who had been hired less than two years ago. The top executive of Lufthansa, the parent company of Germanwings, said he was speechless at the news from France.

In Marseille, the chief prosecutor handling the criminal investigation, Brice Robin, said, “At this moment, in light of investigation, the interpretation we can give at this time is that the co-pilot through voluntary abstention refused to open the door of the cockpit to the commander, and activated the button that commands the loss of altitude.”

Mr. Robin said it appeared that the intention of the co-pilot, identified as Andreas Lubitz, had been “to destroy the aircraft.” He said the voice recorder showed that the co-pilot had been breathing until before the moment of impact, suggesting that he was conscious and deliberate in bringing the plane down and killing 144 passengers and five other crew members on Tuesday. The German Foreign Ministry said half the dead were Germans, including four dual-nationals.

http://nyti.ms/1FK2Wrd

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Data Suggest Plane’s Autopilot Was Manually Reset to Bring It Down
The autopilot on Flight 9525 was manually reset to take the aircraft down to 96 feet, according to FlightRadar24, a web site that tracks aviation data. The website surmised that 96 feet was the lowest altitude setting the system would accept.

The change was made just before the plane began a steep descent that lasted more than 8 minutes. The aircraft struck a mountainside at an altitude of about 6,000 feet.

“Between 09:30:52 and 09:30:55, we can see that the autopilot was manually changed from 38,000 feet,” FlightRadar24 posted in a forum on its site, adding that nine seconds later, “the aircraft started to descend, probably with the ‘open descent’ autopilot setting.”

http://www.nytimes.com/live/updates-on-the-germanwings-crash-investigation/data-suggest-planes-autopilot-was-manually-reset-to-bring-it-down/



The evidence seems pretty damning. At first i thought maybe he had a stroke or passed out or something, but the controlled descent bothered me. Now flight data confirms he set the auto pilot to descend???

Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Mar 26, 2015 - 01:20pm PT
Yep. The downside of hardened cockpit doors.
They assume the bad guy is outside the doors.
There are unpublicized ways for authorized crew members to unlock the doors.
(A person in the cockpit could override this, though).
US regulations require 2 people in the cockpit at all times.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/security-experts-say-us-rules-aim-to-prevent-lone-pilot-scenario/2015/03/26/ee240db8-d3cc-11e4-ab77-9646eea6a4c7_story.html
(mass) murder-suicide
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Mar 26, 2015 - 01:24pm PT
Yup Mike, looks like a whacked out 28 year old. Not a suicide but a mass murder.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 26, 2015 - 01:32pm PT
Indeed Tad. Condolences to family and friends of the lost souls.

John I agree, but maybe he didn't see it that way? You'd have to be pretty messed up to watch yourself go into a mountain.

Maybe he altered his perception or knocked himself out?

If he were that psychotic wouldn't he have left a manifesto or something about his statement? Maybe we will find out more..
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Mar 26, 2015 - 01:39pm PT
We will see Mike. From what I've heard on the radio he pretty much took the jet in at full speed and there is not much left. It appears he made a decision to crater the jet and passengers.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujň de la Playa
Mar 26, 2015 - 01:48pm PT
It sounds pretty damning, but I'll wait for more investigation.

Looking forward, it seems to me that there has been more than enough progress in biometric identification, to enable the implementation of a system which would allow an authorized and identified pilot or co-pilot to open the door from either side.


However,

Biometric ID tech 'inherently fallible,' report says

http://www.zdnet.com/article/biometric-id-tech-inherently-fallible-report-says/

It seemed like a pretty good idea at the time.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 26, 2015 - 01:55pm PT
Only in Europe or East Jibip do they put 600 hour n00bs in the right seat of
large planes. Clearly, being a n00b had nothing to do with this but a few
more years flying regionals might have brought out his unwholesome qualities
before he got a chance to take 150 people down with him. Also, only in
Europe would a captain leave the cockpit on such a short flight. In this
country if a pilot has to leave the cockpit then a male flight attendant is
supposed to enter the cockpit to prevent this sort of thing from happening.
In this country the captain would be terminated immediately for doing so
except when the aircraft is established at cruise altitude for an extended period.
Furthermore, in this country the pilots are forbidden to even talk about
anything not directly related to the safe conduct of the flight during any
phase of the flight other than during cruise.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 26, 2015 - 02:09pm PT
I am curious how sure they are that he was conscious. Apparently he would have had to choose to lock the pilot out and made a specific action to do so after the pilot left. Although it is possible the pilot forgot his door code. it is also possible he took it off autopilot without intending to fly it into the mountain..Yes it's a pretty bizzare unlikely scenario but within the realm of possibility. Some reports say he programmed the flight into the mountain after the pilot left ... and if so then clearly deliberate.

I would want good proof and or verification of these questionable stories that the guy was conscious and capable before saying absolutely he did it on purpose.

I would like to think they have answered all these questions definitively before making such an announcement.. I suspect they did... But Not 100% sure.

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 26, 2015 - 02:13pm PT
The 2 people in the cockpit rule would make this more difficult to pull off.. but not impossible.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 26, 2015 - 02:17pm PT
climbski, they were talking up until the captain left the cockpit. If there
had been a pressurization problem presumably he would not have left. If the
pressure problem occurred after he left and the first officer passed out then
the plane would have remained in level flight, not to mention the voice recorder
would not have recorded the peoples' voices in the cabin when they became
aware of their impending doom. The first officer clearly entered the code
to over-ride the captain's re-entry door code. This is the fourth or fifth
case that I can think of of DBP. Out of the hundreds of thousands of commercial
pilots out there four or five nutters is not very significant, unless you're on their plane.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 26, 2015 - 02:22pm PT
The airbus is a great plane

That is highly debatable. A320 autopilots are very quirky and their auto-throttles
are worse. When they were first introduced there were at least three crashes
that occurred due to confusion about which auto-throttle setting they were in.
There was also a CFIT crash into a mountain in France when the plane was on
autopilot. The autopilot will quite happily take you into a mountainside.
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Mar 26, 2015 - 02:24pm PT
Saying the evil co-pilot deleted his facebook page a few days ago.

Did any of this guys friends notice? Did they say anything to his boss?
In this day and age they should have been alerted enought to ask
the guy some questions.

Maybe 'See Something Say Something' does not translate into German.

After this tragedy watching pilots as closely as passengers has become mandatory. Isn't this the 9th or 10th recent murder/suicide by a pilot crashing intentionally and taking all the passengers with them?

Not sure if the Malaysian Air pilot that flew over the Ukraine on purpose
during the war last year was just stupid of a suicide by Putin. Certainly
teasing the Bear is not wise when vodka gulping SAM crews are shooting
anything that moves down.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 26, 2015 - 02:27pm PT
Ill timed heart attack ..panicky and bumps plane out of autopilot..other pilot forgets his code.. ..boom.

Unlikely for sure.. seems possible. I would like to think they have absolutely eliminated this as a possibility before making such an announcement.. but I don't trust fast moving stories and investigations to get it right always.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 26, 2015 - 02:27pm PT
Jeremy, I'm counting the Malaysia Air as one and I recall another but I can't
recall it specifically.

the Airbus Flight Control System is sometimes ambiguous to pilots

My bro-in-law was jump-seating recently on a company Airbus and said he
couldn't figure out what the hell the crew was doing, and he has 20,000+
hours in a slew of other types.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 26, 2015 - 02:28pm PT
Africa, Egypt airline or something I think that one is verified.. The Malasian one that disappeared seems likely but of course unverifiable.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 26, 2015 - 02:33pm PT
T Hocking, I'm an ex-everything as evidenced by my return, mere minutes ago,
from the Social Security Office! How's that for a LOL?
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 26, 2015 - 02:33pm PT
The autopilot will quite happily take you into a mountainside.

Yes and apparently the flight data shows that is exactly what happened.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Mar 26, 2015 - 02:34pm PT
Are you dead Reilly? You lucky bastard.. I always wanted to be dead .. before I am dead.


I have read some more of the newest stuff released. He did program the system to fly to 100feet ..clearly deliberate...

May he rot in hell.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Mar 26, 2015 - 02:47pm PT
5 other commercial plane crashes since 1976 due to intentional actions by pilot:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/26/travel/germanwings-crash-death-by-pilot-cases/index.html
Like Reilly said, 5-6 nut cases out of x00,000 is not bad unless you are on that flight...
phylp

Trad climber
Upland, CA
Mar 26, 2015 - 04:11pm PT
I think the intentional ones are less frightening than the incompetent ones:


[url="http://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2014/10/air-france-flight-447-crash"]

Although they are all pretty awful.
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