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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Nov 19, 2014 - 09:57pm PT
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Class acts all of them. The same can be said for the guys that manned up and apologized for being wrong all those years ago.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 19, 2014 - 10:10pm PT
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Studly - only one man manned up, and he did it right here on McTopo. As for the other two? Nothin' but crickets.
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The Wolf
Trad climber
Martinez, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2014 - 10:52pm PT
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 19, 2014 - 11:58pm PT
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Thanks Wolf... its a tough gig to follow your heart and make these films..
Bravo
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Nov 20, 2014 - 01:14am PT
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nice film (the long version)..... brave ascent..... perhaps heroic is the word (the first and the repeat). (edit: I deleted my comments. still true I suppose, but I don't want to be part of a dog pile.)..... carry on
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Nov 20, 2014 - 08:19am PT
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Yes Pete, you're right. Steve Schneider I have nothing but the utmost respect for. The others, well... karma is a tough mistress to answer to.
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The Wolf
Trad climber
Martinez, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 20, 2014 - 09:13am PT
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Yes, we could not find a place for this discussion in the film. I know it feels contrived but this was truly the first time the 1st and 2nd ascent team had ever met so the conversation was some what stiff as conversations are sometimes with people we don't really know. But I thought there was some info in there that would be nice to see in this format.
Steve Grossman: I have the utmost respect for Steve. He is an important part of our film as he boldly and confidently offers his opinions. For that honesty I am eternally grateful. I have only positive feelings for Steve, he was kind, generous and honest, I can't ask for much more from anyone.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 20, 2014 - 09:29am PT
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I thought it was worthwhile to watch it (the El Cap Meadow short),
awkward as it may have been.
Maybe next time you could get Oprah or Graham Norton to emcee? ;-)
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 20, 2014 - 09:32am PT
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Question: is that Grossman guy really as big a dick as he comes across as?
Not having seen the film, I can't comment on anyone's performance in it. But Steve has been a close friend for many years now, and I can vouch for the fact that he's a warm, funny, kind, and generous man.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Nov 20, 2014 - 10:19am PT
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It's been a few months since I watched this but,
"Question: is that Grossman guy really as big a dick as he comes across as?"
My impression was that he does not come across very well. But maybe not his fault. There seemed not enough context/backstory to explain why he was dissing so hard on the route and the FA party.
His comments sounded jarring in part because the rest of the movie was so upbeat, with little or no criticism of the route or the style or the vision, or explanation of why there was criticism.
Steve comes off as an outlier, when in fact at the time of the FA and for years after there was widespread and vicious condemnation of all aspects of the climb. In that context his comments would sound totally mainstream, consensus opinion.
This was not really explained or explored, as I recall. Maybe my recollection is not so great, though.
Anyway, to fully explain this wider context would be a huge challenge. The massive, well-funded Valley Uprising, made by a vastly experienced team, struggled to explain much of the byzantine social world of Camp 4 in the 1970s.
The WoS movie IS a very fine testament to Ammon and Kait. Might actually have been better without Steve's soundbites at all.
The best comment about the climb I've read was from Rob Slater, who did the first 5 pitches:
"There's a lot of drilling, but there's a lot of really delicate hooking, too"
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Nov 20, 2014 - 12:16pm PT
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Thanks Nita for the link to the hulu access point.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Nov 20, 2014 - 12:34pm PT
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"Steve Grossman: I have the utmost respect for Steve. He is an important part of our film as he boldly and confidently offers his opinions. For that honesty I am eternally grateful. I have only positive feelings for Steve, he was kind, generous and honest, I can't ask for much more from anyone."
Jeff - I am laughing so hard right now, there are tears rolling down my face and I almost p|ssed my pants!!!!!!!1111111
One of the most fundamental parts of your excellent film - and the part that will be most appreciated by those here at Supertopo who have read all of Steve Grossman's posts concerning Mark and Richard - is the Steve Grossman interview at the very end of your film. The interview that was included as one of those "click here after you have seen the movie" thing.
Jeff - do have the Steve Grossman interview uploaded on line? Can you please provide us a link here?
And if you haven't, will you PLEASE upload it, and provide us the link!
Cheers,
Pete
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Nov 20, 2014 - 12:53pm PT
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So.... I'm watching the WOS video posted to Hulu...
At the Steve Grossmann part of the interview with him where he talks about how the first ascent team wrote about there being a sense of urgency about doing the climb... mentions that others would be on it before them if they had not got onto the climb...
Grossman says nobody was going up that climb...
Ammon and Kate did it....
If the climb never gets another ascent... what does that prove? Or, would that prove something to anyone involved?
So far in the movie it seems that the climb was too difficult... maybe it was really ahead of its time.
Unfortunately... listening to the first ascent team talk about their treatment from the climbing community....
Makes me glad I am no longer a climber... That's not the community I was a part of... and it sounds like a pretty f*#ked up community to be a part of... but it is what it is. I guess I should just be glad I never did anything controversial in the climbing world... like live a life of freedom within the activity I loved.
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Typewriters and Ledges
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Nov 20, 2014 - 12:58pm PT
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Steve comes off as a curmudgeonly outlier, when in fact at the time of the FA and for years after there was widespread and vicious condemnation of all aspects of the climb. In that context his comments would sound totally mainstream, consensus opinion.
Though an important point of context to consider, it seems as though most who were originally against WOS have changed their minds and perspectives as the reality of the climb has come into the community consciousness over time. Grossman's interview though was not done in the past when this negative community perspective was the norm, the interview was instead recorded in the present when that perspective for most people seems to have changed. In that context Grossman appears to be an outlier because In fact, his rather vicious perspective of Jensen and Smith (rather than the route itself) today IS an outlier in the climbing community.
At the Steve Grossmann part of the interview with him where he talks about how the first ascent team wrote about there being a sense of urgency about doing the climb...
Having read the book that Jensen wrote about the climb, I was struck by this statement by Grossman when I saw it in the film. I do not recall ANYTHING in the book that would lead an impartial reader to come to the conclusion that Grossman presents about the text. I don't have the book on me anymore (leant it out long ago) but I would be interested to see the textual support to what seems to me Grossman's creating an account out of whole cloth.
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bergbryce
climber
East Bay, CA
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Nov 20, 2014 - 01:14pm PT
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I watched the full length movie last night. Thanks for the link and thanks for the movie, really enjoyed it.
I think Grossman's perspective is useful because he represents the overwhelming feelings towards Mark and Richard when the route was going up.
And it's clear he's still butthurt to this day.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Nov 20, 2014 - 01:27pm PT
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Grossman talking about the animosity being such that if they needed rescue the climbers wouldn't do it... let them meet their end....
That's a great sentiment....
sure, angry climbers say things... angry people say things...
doesn't make it right.. and the mind that first thought it was what makes us all smell a little funny.
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