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James
Gym climber
City by the Bay
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 5, 2003 - 02:46pm PT
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We are pleased to inform you that the spectacular corner high on drug dome is no longer scarred by unnecessary midway anchors. These offensive quarter inchers have been pulled, as well as an anchor about 80 feet up the first pitch, and a quarter incher at the gram traverse/OZ belay.
I give all due respect to Dale Bard, however, not even first-ascensionists have the right to place bolts next to a crack halfway up a full pitch.... Though rapping the route with one rope is no longer possible, the walk down is fine unless you're a lightweight.
Cheers!
James and Max
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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And did you replace the manky quarter inch bolts on the last pitch so that the route can be safely finished?
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Matt
Trad climber
SF Bay Area
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This is what I am always wondering whenever I hear or read stuff like the message posted above:
Given that plenty of climbers have made their way up that line w/out needing to chop any bolts, who are you to be the one to make those decisions? Did you contact the party that placed them and discuss it w/ them, or are you so omniscient that you already know what they were thinking and why they placed the bolts in question? I am not saying those bolts were needed in that spot, but I am just not sure I want you (or anyone like you) to be the self appointed bolt police.
If nothing else, you might be shafting some poor kid who is pushing himself at the grade and expects to find the bolts, as shown in his guide book topo.
Also, your attitude in that post doesn't do much to assure anyone that your judgement is sound or that your ego is secondary to your interest in the route itself.
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Thom
Trad climber
South Orange County, CA
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I am pleased to inform you that you do not have the right to determine how a first ascentionist should climb a route. Perhaps you'd like to chop all bolts on El Cap and require that we toprope them with 3000' ropes; carrying the ropes to the top should be fine unless we're all lightweights.
With all due respect to you Gym Climber(s) from The City by the Bay: due us a favor and don't do us any more favors. Keep yourselves and your self-righteous ethics in the gym.
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Tradboy
Social climber
Valley
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I must've missed the announcement when you guys became the new bolt police. What's next, Cookie Monster? Are you gonna go strip that this weekend and come back to the forum next week and tell us how proud you feel?
BTW, did you lead the corner on OZ using nuts only? What about the Gram Traverse, did you do that on passive protection as well? Let me know 'cause I'm curious.
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Binks
Social climber
i am of the universe and you know what it's worth.
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delusions of grandeur.
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dave
climber
Oceanside
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Hey Wolf, I think we'll need a 6000 ft' rope to T.R. El Cap. If we use the 3000 ft' should we just pick an arbitrary spot for a fat ass bolted T.R. anchor? Or should we leave gear behind? Hows the rope get up there anyways? Ha, Ha.
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Thom
Trad climber
South Orange County, CA
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Doooh! Thanks Dave; make me look like an idiot why don't you! Oh, sorry; I did that myself. 3000 feet; stupid, stupid, stupid; I'm such an idiot! Jeez, dumb, idiot, stupid moron...
Okay, okay...we'll set up a harpoon gun in the meadow; or a cannon. Yeah, a cannon; one of those circus cannons. Then we'll tie a rope to, to...a climber, yeah, that's it, a climber. If you volunteer we can call you Super Dave. Wait, that's been taken. How 'bout Super DUPER Dave? Yeah, that'll work. And you can wear an Evel Knevel suit...wait that's been taken too. Okay, you'll have to wear a clown suit instead. Will that work for you? If not, you can just choose your own outfit; but make it something nice. Then, we'll shoot you, Super Duper Dave, in your clown suit (or whatever you chose to wear for the occasion) to the summit. That will at least finally explain to the tourons how the rope gets up there.
Then, we'll take a bicycle and a sawed off angle...
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mtndncr
Trad climber
Berkeley
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I was just on OZ 2 weeks ago and was priveleged to have a beautiful sunny day. Most of you are well aware of the wet season Tuolumne is having and quick descents have been very common this year!
The author says the walk off is easy and if you have problems than you must be a lightweight???? He's right, the walk off isn't that hard, but if I was getting hammered w/rain, thunder, and lightning, or you were on the climb early in the season, the walk off is actually pretty hairy. I guess this doesn't justify bolts, but I haven't a clue where people get off chopping bolts to climbs that they have little or no history. Unfortunately, we have a small population of climbers who are idiots and think they are part of the solution. Would it be better to have 3 sets of rap anchors down the middle of Manure Pile buttress, instead of a descent that has been trampled to death??? Do these idiots really think about the environmental impacts before they act out? I wonder why someone like this is even on the forum since I've heard that real men don't use Supertopos??? I guess if your a lightweight, hopefully you aren't lucky enough to climb w/one of these losers???????
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Skinner
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Nice point, I never thought that bolts could help out in a hariy storm or something. I always thought the first ascentionist's style was his style and he probably wouldn't mind if someone did it without bolts, in fact, I'm sure I'd encourage it, but to chop those bolts when you weren't in fact there to pioneer the route makes you disrespectful of those who had the balls to create a route, which you today take pleasure in.....as well as an asswipe...
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LMB
climber
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Just wanted to thank you guys for removing those midway anchors. They were ugly and dangerous (I wouldn't rap off that mess).
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dave
climber
Oceanside
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Wolf, I'm into the clown suit but with some depends sewn in, just in case, but a bicycle, I want a uni-cycle and rurps! Also I'm not sure about "Super Dooper Dave" how about Dangling dave? And lets get Jody to make the loads for the cannon! Lets Fly!!
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Matt
Trad climber
SF Bay Area
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There is some sort of easy joke in there, w/ the Depends and the super duper stuff, but I am just gonna walk away...
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Thom
Trad climber
South Orange County, CA
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Okay, a uni-cycle and RURPs it is. I'm pretty sure we could get Jody to make the loads for the cannon but you're on your own as far as the loads for the Depends. I can see the poster now:
Come one, come all! See the death defying daredevil doings of dangerous Danglin' Dave, as he rockets to the summit of the mighty El Capitan with Jody's load in his Depends! Watch as, laughing in the face of death (and wearing his custom made clown suit), he rides a uni-cycle along Potter's Slackline while juggling 16 RURPs, 2 Old E's, and a Pecker (oh, wait, that's the dangling part; maybe you shouldn't juggle THAT in public).
Okay, maybe we have to think this thing through a little bit more; it's kinda weird.
This show has not yet been rated; however, Parental Guidance is suggested. No one under 18 admitted without adult.
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DB
Social climber
yosemite
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Who in the hell are these ASSHOLE’S coming up to Tuolumne and pulling 1st ascent bolts on a route that 2 climbers spent weeks climbing in 1975? Dale and Bobo put their blood, sweat and tears into OZ and the route should be left as a testament to the old days.
What arrogant jerks! I will replace all the bolts with non-chopable Petzel Long Life stainless steel. And if I see their truck parked somewhere…………….
Hmmm, déjà vu of the old parking lot bolt wars of Kauk and Bachar in the 80’s. Wait until Dimitri hears about this.
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maculated
Trad climber
Danville, CA
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What they all said.
In other news, the debate rages on:
How do you say OZ?
Ounce?
O-Z?
Oz?
Pot-ay-to, Pot-ah-to. Last year everyone was saying Ounce, now everyone seems to be saying O-Z. Y tu?
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LMB
climber
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I really don't understand why ABC and others are getting angry over the removal of the midway anchor on OZ. And although I can't speak for either of the first ascentionists, I think they would be okay with the removal of an unecessary, ugly, and potentially dangerous anchor. The less bolts at belays on that route the better. There is no need for many of them and some on the route today are asca additions. OZ is an incredible route. I can't wait to climb it again and confront less bolts. Thanks max and james.
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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That fact that James posted this here in the manner that he did as opposed to simply noting it on the appropriate route beta page makes it pretty clear he was boasting or at the very least looking for comments. I suppose that has as much to do with why people have reacted as they have as the actual act itself.
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Nor Cal
Trad climber
San Mateo
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I am suprised that James has not come back to defend his actions, or as it may be, stir things up even more.
James, I hope you filled the holes you left. If your gonna pull bolts be sure to go the "extra mile" and do it right.
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mike
climber
tahoe city,ca
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"as well as anchor about 80' up the first pitch." Did you chop the top of Ice? More than likely they did. Clowns
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