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Impaler
Social climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 16, 2012 - 01:38pm PT
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My friend just e-mailed me this morning asking me to refresh his memory on the knot that we used for rappelling to join two different diameter ropes together. Well, I tried searching the intertubes and nothing turned up that looks like my knot. Someone told me that it's a figure 9, but the interwebs disagrees with me. I love the knot and have been using it for the last 1.5 years. I haven't died yet. It's very compact, has zero slippage and is easy to untie. So, I highly recommend it. The only critical issue is to make sure the strands alternate, so that they can tighten down each other. Can anyone help me out with the name of this thing?
Here I've tied a 7.5 mm tagline to a 9.4 mm lead rope, which is what I climb on nowadays on the bigger rocks:
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crasic
climber
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Aug 16, 2012 - 01:47pm PT
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I'm pretty sure thats just a well dressed double overhand knot, not sure if thats better or worse then the single overhand (EDK) in terms of slippage...
edit: according some articles online its seems to me just fine, not that much stronger then a single overhand and more prone to get stuck, but if it gives you that piece of mind...
Personally, I either use just an EDK or a butterfly bend with the tails backed up with a single overhand on the tails.
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James Doty
Trad climber
Phoenix, Az.
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Aug 16, 2012 - 01:51pm PT
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looks like a grapevine. same knot used for joining cordage just tied around itself using both strands. Should be bomber.
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crasic
climber
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Aug 16, 2012 - 02:04pm PT
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Square Knot,
Not sure thats right, I just tried tying your bog standard double overhand and dressed it to be just like the OP.
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ec
climber
ca
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Aug 16, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
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Check above.
I have used this as well.
 ec
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Impaler
Social climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2012 - 02:12pm PT
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So, I think it is some type of a double overhand knot. However, I have yet to see it tied in both ropes simultaneously. There are a couple of instructional pages that use a double overhand in EACH strand of rope and then the two knots are pulled against each other. That way the two ropes come out of the different sides of the knot. In my knot both ropes point the same way.
It looks like grapevine is a synonym for double fisherman
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crasic
climber
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Aug 16, 2012 - 02:27pm PT
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For a square knot, the tails are on opposite sides, on this knot the tails are on the same side, I may be wrong and the square looks like this when tied in a special way but here is my replication using a bog standard double overhand
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hillrat
Trad climber
reno, nv
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Aug 16, 2012 - 02:32pm PT
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Someone should pull-test this. It,s a flat double overhand, which i,ve not yet seen data on.
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crasic
climber
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Aug 16, 2012 - 02:34pm PT
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Someone should pull-test this. It,s a flat double overhand, which i,ve not yet seen data on.
Indeed, I'm curious too. There is anecdotal evidence online saying its just as good as a single overhand under standard static pulls, but no actual numbers
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Impaler
Social climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2012 - 02:35pm PT
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Crasic, thanks for the replies! Yes, it's the same knot. You just started tying yours differently, but the result is the same.
Hillrat, that would be nice. I think it's a good and simple knot.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 16, 2012 - 03:06pm PT
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OP's knot looks like a flat double fishermans. Performed exceptionally well in testing from what I recall.
Personally, I use a well dressed, prestressed EDK. On a rare occasion I'll the flemish bend (more if I'm joining two ropes for a long fixed line, almost never for a rap type setup).
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crasic
climber
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Aug 16, 2012 - 03:41pm PT
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OP's knot looks like a flat double fishermans.
Thats a different knot, although it looks similar, there would be two crossing strands on the back side, this is just a double overhand. Basically an EDK twice over.
Here are both knots tied on the same pair of strands, bottom knot (right) is the flat double fishermans (double fishermans tied with strands in the same direction) and the top knot (left) is the the flat double overhand.
This here is what I've been playing around with alpine butterfly bend with and EDK backup, fast to tie, hard to screw up, as bombproof as the flemish (figure 8 follow through) but assymeterical so it won't get stuck. Backed up with an overhand.
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wivanoff
Trad climber
CT
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Aug 17, 2012 - 07:50am PT
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That DOB is an interesting knot. I've never seen that one before.
I've been using the flat overhand (EDK) with similar size ropes and a flat double fisherman's (ends coming out the same side) for different size ropes.
I'm wondering how easy the DOB is to untie after loading (compared to the flat double fisherman's)? It sure is easier to tie.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Aug 17, 2012 - 11:16am PT
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Nice knot, the Double Overhand (DOB). It solves the dangerous slippage of the EDK.
To make the DOB easier to untie, tie it as shown by Crasic, but tighten it so the the lower wrap does not ride up and over. You will end up with a knot that looks like half of a pursik knot that will be much easier to untie.
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ruppell
climber
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Aug 17, 2012 - 01:18pm PT
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The double becket bend it what I've always used for different sized ropes. Easy to tie and bomber. Just make sure both tag ends are off the same side of the knot or your gonna die.
Becket Bend
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 17, 2012 - 01:27pm PT
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^^^^ I don't know how Samuell Beckett insinuated himself into the knott business
but those Irish are a tiresomely sneaky lot. That looks a regular old
sheet bend to me which is what a sailor turned climber always uses to tie
different sized ropes together. I would usually make two bights of the
smaller rope with, of course, both ends half-hitched. It is also very easy
to untie.
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ruppell
climber
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Aug 17, 2012 - 06:56pm PT
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Reilly
It's always been called the becket bend. Maybe sheep bend would be a better name then sheet bend. You know because the Irish gotta have a way to tie up those sheep. lol
And yeah that knot is bomber without backups. It's one of the few knots that fire ladder companies use for lower outs. Good enough for those boys good enough for me.
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ec
climber
ca
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Aug 18, 2012 - 10:51am PT
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I'm telling you, the 'Square Grapevine' is similar to the Becket...however improved.
ec
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