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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 28, 2012 - 05:19pm PT
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Flying Circus may be the ultimate “museum climb” at Tahquitz. A museum climb is one usually only read about in the guide book and looked at, but hardly ever climbed. There are only two known ascents, Rob Muir, Charles Cole and me in 1978, and Darrell Hensel, Dave Evans, and Todd Gordon in the mid eighties.
Some photos from the first ascent:
Reaching the belay at the end of the first pitch. Photo by Charles Cole.
Rob Muir placing the bolt at the end of the run out on the Muir Trail.Photo by Charles Cole.
FC is an anachronism in that the hardest part of it is aid climbing, hooking past a blank overhanging section. I led this section in 1978 and it was so scary that I still remember it very clearly. I top looped from a Rurp placement (now fixed and cabled) and was able to get a Logan hook onto a small edge on overhanging rock. Weighting this tenuous hook, I was able to carefully make my way to the upper steps of the aiders and reach up high to hook a small horn. From there, it was one more secure hook placement to put in the first bolt. A fall from anywhere below this first bolt would be serious, slamming the leader into the less steep rock below.
Todd G. has described the second ascent, here.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=155821&msg=156402#msg156402
John Weinberg is a very talented climber and somewhat of a patron of museum climbs. For example, he recently notched the long awaited second ascent of Hensel's 5.13 “Something You’re Not” at Suicide.
John recently emailed me to inquire whether Flying Circus might go free. I encouraged him to put a top rope on it and if it went free, add bolts so it could be led. John rapped down and tried it, but it was too improbable, even for one of his proven ability. The rock is pretty featureless for about 10 feet and overhanging in that stretch. He also brought hooks up, but was unable to do the key hook section, even with a top rope. John also replaced the last remaining original bolt on the route.
So last weekend I was in Southern California on business and met up with John and his friend, Laura, with the goal of taking a look at Flying Circus, and maybe doing something to allow climbers to access more easily the upper free climbing section. There was rumor that a top climber had pulled off a key flake in the hooking section and I wanted to see for myself. Others have tried the route over the years, as indicated by a couple of mysterious, chopped bolts in the middle of the aid section.
John led us up Mechanic’s route, the great historic classic that I hadn’t done since the 70’s. It is just as good as I remember it; you leave the security of the crack and venture out on steep granite scoops that are not secure even in modern shoes. This was a phenomenal lead for 1937, a landmark in the history of bold climbing in America. We then did a short traverse to the two bolt anchor at the top of Green Arch’s second pitch. From there, we were able to rappel down Flying Circus.
It was strange looking down on the route 34 years later; on rappel it looked absurdly blank.
We top roped the second pitch first, the “Muir Trial”, named for Rob Muir, who led it after a long fall on his first attempt. The line traverses a few feet straight right from the two bolt belay and then goes up straigth up some gold colored rock on intermittent edges for about 15 feet. Then comes a difficult stretch back left to a 2 inch sloping foothold where you really have to trust your left foot, and a misstep is unthinkable. To lead this in EBs and get that bolt in required terrific composure under pressure, a continuation of the bold precedent set by Dawson on the Mechanic’s route in 1937.
Laura, top rope on the Muir Trail.
We then top roped the first pitch, which originally had free climbing to a forty foot aid section before going free again to a two-bolt belay. The entirely free second pitch , the Muir Trail, started from that belay.
As to the aid section, It is not clear whether the key hook move can be done today. On rappel, I thought I saw the key edge I may have used, but didn’t try it. It is unfortunate that the hook move prevents anyone from doing the route because the upper part is some of the best face climbing at either Tahquitz or Suicide, located in a unique, spectacular position.
So I propose adding a bolt slightly right of the crux hooking section. This would allow those who want to try the hard hook move to do so with protection, without risking the penalty of a late fall. If in fact the hook move is not possible anymore because a flake ripped off, one could clip the bolt and use it for aid rather than protection, and then hook the remaining 30 feet or so to the second bolt we placed on the route. This is where the aid ended and free climbing started again. Also, that bolt would allow ambitious climbers to work on trying to do it free.
I also would like to add a second bolt at the end of the aid section so that the first, mixed free/aid pitch ends there. This would have the advantage of having the Muir Trail runout be no longer right off the belay. You’d have more rope out there and less force generated if you fell. That runout is long, but pretty safe as you can’t hit anything. This was proven by Rob’s fall on the first ascent; he was unhurt and went back up and got it.
Reworking the pitches this way would also mean that all you would need for the first pitch would be aid slings and hooks. The first pitch, until the hooking starts, is well protected with cams and nuts and now goes free up to the fixed rurp. Then the hooking starts and continues for the next 30 feet, including a tricky and difficult hook traverse straight right that Charles Cole led on the first ascent. The route after this change would have a longer second pitch of excellent face climbing that is hard, but certainly doable by many climbers, especially if used to Tahquitz and Suicide style face climbing.
I believe that local climbing community should have a say in these sorts of decisions. I am no longer a local having lived in Colorado for 32 years, so I encourage any comments on this. If reworked as described, it will create the opportunity for a very memorable experience: a throwback to the days when most of the climbs at Lily Rock were aid climbs, but with the aid allowing access to some stellar free climbing.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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May 28, 2012 - 05:23pm PT
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interesting proposal.
i love the rock over there--
fwiw, the start of mechanic's was originally an aid point-- a tension traverse in from the left.
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pile
Trad climber
jail
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May 28, 2012 - 10:22pm PT
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wow here is a topic that I am glad was brought up...and coming from the first ascentionist gives this even more substance.
i think it comes down to do we want to have museum climbs around? at this venue, there are some, but there just not as many museum climbs at suicide and tahquitz anymore. i think Flying circus is the 10,000lb gorilla up at tahquitz when it comes to museum climbs.
i thought it was a big deal when John W got the 2nd of someone your not. I kinda want to hear about guys breaking those boundarys on these museum climbs, I am sure Mr. Hensel, Gordon, and Evans hold that 2nd close to them. when it comes down to brass tacks, to bolt or not to bolt, is up to the FA guys in my book. in this case since the FA team and SA team are friends, they all should talk about it. Do we want to give the climbing community a free climbing challenge? I kinda want that portal to 1978 to be always there, the route in the way you guys first did it. I am sure i am not the only one that has stared up at flying circus and dreamed of climbing it.
its the FA teams call for new bolts on anything i feel, and that is you Mr. Accomazzo, thats way cool that you want the local opinion, but you were as local as you can be at one time i am sure!
There is plenty of good hard freeclimbing in that area, the old aid routes are slowly dwindiling one by one...
in a imaginary place where votes counted, I say leave it
And Mr. Accomazzo, its a honor to discuss this with you, I have long admired your adventures
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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May 28, 2012 - 10:35pm PT
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A route out of my league but a great discussion. Anxious to hear what Todd & Dave have to say.
It sounds like a sensible proposal.
Also keep in mind the next generation of Stonemasters, should they ever come. Apelike creatures with extraordinarily long arms, handlike feet and low central body weight.
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F10
Trad climber
Bishop
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May 28, 2012 - 11:10pm PT
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Good stuff, this is what the taco is all about
Keep it coming.....
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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May 28, 2012 - 11:37pm PT
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Sounds like an awesome route. i loved Tahquitz & Suicide and spent a lot of time climbing there back in the early seventies. Bouldered with RM a few times around Idylwild. Hopefully it will get a much deserved third ascent and more attention. Sounds like a lot of bold effort and work was put into its F&SA. Thanks for keeping it alive and in focus RA!
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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May 29, 2012 - 12:57am PT
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Wow, May 1986 was a big month for me!
The FA of the Pope and the 10th of the Totem Pole ,FAs of "Why Does it Hurt When I Pee?," "Wheel of Fortune," "Like So Much Baggage," "Ravens Do Nasty Things To My Bottom," the second A. of "No Pie A-La-Mode" and the 2nd on "Flying Circus" a total of 45 routes. We climbed a week in Utah and then all remaining weekends in a row, The Portal, Josh and Tahquitz. Every weekend and more was the norm in those days.
For the record Margy Floyd was on it as well and also did the Muir Trail with no falls and the cheat stick was roughly 10 feet long(shorter than 2 etriers clipped together).
Please forgive me for spraying and thanks for the memories!
What's wrong with a "museum" climb?
But, feel free to do whatever you want, the future is now!
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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May 29, 2012 - 01:54am PT
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I did nothing but belay on the 2nd ascent;...Evans did some rad aid shenanagans, and Hensel was cool as a cucumber on the Muir Trail. Craig Fry, Margie Floyd (Evans), Dave Evans, Hensel, and myself were on the 2nd ascent. We all did the Muir Trail no falls;....which is no big deal for myself, Margie, Craig, and Dave;...a big deal for Hensel for he was leading;....not a pitch you want to fall on while leading. If Ricky says add a bolt or two;..go for it. As it is now, it probably can't be lead without a bigass cheater-stick with a hook on it, or a few more bolts. Even if Ricky adds a few bolts;..the thing will still be full blow manic;....it won't be a trade route or a walk in the park;....but at least some motivated and talented climbers can give it a try. Go for it!
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neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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May 29, 2012 - 11:56am PT
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Bump for more discussion...
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Anxious Melancholy
Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
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May 29, 2012 - 12:51pm PT
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First, I could never climb this route, nor anything even close to something that difficult. I have, however, climbed at T/S for over 30 years.
Although I don’t think my opinion’s worth a damn, you did ask:
Adding bolts to make the route more accessible would be a mistake. There’s plenty of rock, and this is a prime example of a really unique route. Why dumb it down to some common denominator? Why not let it maintain its current flavor? As you've shown, if people really want to do it and are not up to the high standards required, they can top rope it.
And contrary to what I just wrote, and as an alternative to aid bolts for the missing hook flake(s), might you consider some holes for bat hooks? I know that this alters the route from its original ascent conditions, but perhaps it would still mimic it closely?
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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May 29, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
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Bat hooks would work;......if the flakes to hook are gone;....do what Dave Evans did on the 2nd ascent;.....bring up a 10' pole with a sky hook duct taped to the end of it, attatched to 2 sets of aiders tied together....go for a blind hook placement (That actually wasn't all that great).....tug on it a few times;...then climb up two sets of aiders to check out your hook placement;...all off of some dicey aid placements below......then start some dicey 5.10 free climbing off a suspect 1/4" bolt.......some fairly rad stuff;.....but do-able if you have the sac and skills to do this sort of thing.....
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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May 29, 2012 - 01:48pm PT
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Add bolts will travel.
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BruceAnderson
Social climber
Los Angeles currently St. Antonin, France
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May 29, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
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I just have to say after having cut my teeth at Tahquitz some 25 years ago, and currently climbing 12+/13- sport routes over here in europe, those hard routes at Lily Rock still make me cringe. Guys like Hensel deserve so much respect.
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pile
Trad climber
jail
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May 29, 2012 - 02:34pm PT
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great commentary...
I want to know if the key hooking section can still be done. Yes, routes have been 'killed' when a key hold/flake/whatever breaks off, rendering the route improbable if not impossible. Example, right across the valley, bukatude. key hold broke, the line was ressurected via start from the left w a bolt added...
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Bread
Trad climber
Craggy Mountains, NC
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May 29, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
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What is a "museum climb"?
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pile
Trad climber
jail
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May 29, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
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Man! The FA tale, along with the story of the 2nd ascent party doing the super long cheater stick aiding blindly is the kinda stuff that makes routes like this what it is
Again, I say its Mr. Accomazzo, Mr. Muir, and Mr. Cole's call, and I think in this case, the only other voices that carry weight are those of the 2nd ascent team.
The warbler has a good idea w the traverse in or pendi In, i like that idea as well. I respect these opinions
Good stuff here, love talking about places that I love so much
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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May 29, 2012 - 02:50pm PT
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JL, did you intentionally word your post like that? Why am I suspicious?
Add bolts will travel as in the added bolts will result in the FC being travelled more frequently?
Or
Add bolts will travel as in the precedence of adding bolts will subsequently travel onto other routes where it is not acceptable?
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neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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May 29, 2012 - 02:52pm PT
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^^^ I was hoping it meant JL would come down and give it a try...
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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May 29, 2012 - 03:12pm PT
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It's the FA team's call.
If we were voting, I would vote to leave it be. As Mr. Gordon said, it is doable as it sits now.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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May 29, 2012 - 03:24pm PT
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It appears that Rick has proposed two separate issues here:
1. Adding a bolt to the first aid pitch to bypass (or protect) a possibly unusable hook placement.
Apparently the 2nd Ascent team didn't need the placement, showing some imagination (and guts).
The bolt would significantly change the character of the aid climbing (make it less serious).
Good or Bad?
2. Doubling the last bolt on the 1st pitch and making it an belay.
This makes the second pitch lead somewhat less serious (lowering the fall factor among other things) by providing more rope out, rather than falling onto the belay.
This seems a less intrusive "fix" than adding a 3rd bolt (off right and up a bit) to the existing belay -- the other alternative.
Will either of these remove this climb from "museum" status? Difficult to say, but there might be a few more ascents in the future, but not many. This isn't going to open the route to the masses, and the thing will still scare me.
If Rick, Rob and CC3 are OK with it, it is really their call.
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