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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 28, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
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Looking at the guide it appears that Woodward and I forgot to report an extension to Sailing Shoes that we did around 86/87(?). The extension connects Sailing Shoes with the upper pitches of Lucifer's Ledge. Good climbing. The topo:
The bolt in the middle of the 5.12 section ended up being a mini-epic, taking us parts of two days to get in. At one point we even resorted to trying to use a hook on a micro hold (utterly useless, as much weight as the hook took one might as well have just jumped off.) Yeah, I know, a hook on the apron? Isn't that low angle? There was a hilarious (imo) conversation between Bachar and Woodward to that extent when discussing the problems we were having getting a bolt in. Eventually JW got the bolt in, and then in a nice effort powered the rest of the pitch through in a single push, electing not to share the remaining hand drilling work because he didn't want to have to do the crux again.
Anyway, for those who might be interested, yet a few more good pitches on the apron.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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May 28, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
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^^^
TC and I thought it would go - although the idea was an Oasis Direct. This in about the same timeframe.
Way to Be, man, proud line.
BTW, I bought Russ McClean's pin rack at his yard sale out here, when he decided to go back to School. For $20, he threw in some 12 pt crampons too.
Neither of which I've used...except for a few bail leaver pins.
"I just wanted them to go to someone who knew what they were."
(Russ had led the FA Lucifer's-Oasis when I was in knickers - but I played dumb about it; not hard for me to do)
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 28, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
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thanks!
any more?
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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May 28, 2012 - 04:29pm PT
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Nice Darrell, that sounds hideous, in a good way.
Any pictures?
Rick
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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May 28, 2012 - 04:35pm PT
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5.12 apron is absolutely boggling for me to consider. Even 5.11 is imaginary in a place where 5.9 apron is at the tail extremity of what average people can do with some practice, and 5.10 requires some life dedication to make possible.
Amazing.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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May 28, 2012 - 08:09pm PT
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And you're, thinking in terms of sticky rubber...:
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 28, 2012 - 08:27pm PT
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Wrapping my head around the concept of Apron 5.12 is, for me, like trying to comprehend the size of the Universe.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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May 28, 2012 - 09:19pm PT
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Thanks, Darrell.
I'll check with Roger to see if he replaced the bolts in 2007.
Here's a relevant comment in a post from Bruce Morris in 2007:
Always thought there was the possibility of another pitch above the ending of the fourth pitch of "Sailin' Shoes".
-----
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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May 28, 2012 - 09:25pm PT
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The original Lucifer's to the Oasis team (1965) of McClinsky and Boodawg on an Apron route we were working on over towards Happy Isles circa 1970. Entire route collapsed years later.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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May 28, 2012 - 09:28pm PT
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guido,
Did your project over by Happy Isles start off the top of where "Shuttle Madness" now goes?
We saw some old bolts up there when fixing some ropes for Roger.
(Unfortunately the area is still hazardous, as a bunch of rocks fell down when Roger was up there and he barely managed to hide in the Milk Dud corner).
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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May 28, 2012 - 09:45pm PT
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Clint I have no idea where Shuttle Madness is located, can you post one of your wonderful photos with all the routes highlighted?
We bailed because of some crazy large and loose VW bus size blocks and rappelled straight down.
So you might have seen are rappel exit. Came down in the dark for most of it. Probably single 1/4 inch Rawl's with some hanging rappels if I remember correctly.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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May 28, 2012 - 10:50pm PT
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Left side of Apron. Shuttle Madness is down low, right of the tall dead tree in the foreground.
Back on topic, right side of the Apron, showing the area of Sailing Shoes and Lucifer's Shoes (on right side of photo).
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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May 29, 2012 - 12:14am PT
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Clint: Seems like our project went up one of those corners that diagonal up and right directly behind the dead conifer tree on left side of your pic. I have unscanned slides of the proposed route but no time to scan them now.
Here's a pic of Russ from the same afternoon.
Edit: Or maybe not that afternoon since he probably didn't change his shirt up there.
Edit2: Actually, it looks like the same belay place: Same biner, pants, slings over shirt, etc. The scan settings or dyes in the different slides must have changed over time.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Darrell,
FYI, Don Reid already modified the 2005 draft topo with this extension and FA info.
It is in there as Sailing Shoes Continuation 5.12a ** at present; is that your preferred name?
Hopefully we will get this out in print before too long!
Roger may have replaced the anchor bolts.
I will try to take a closer look this weekend.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 1, 2012 - 12:48am PT
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Clint,
We hadn't ever uniquely named it that I can recall, until last weekend while we were making the topo for scanning. I think we both would prefer Lucifer's Shoes to a vanilla "Continuation" type name even though that must be what was submitted by JW (JW assumed he had failed to submit based on guide absence).
We're a little leery of the 12a rating now. A lot of things ended up an "a" around that time. But maybe that's our old age speaking.
Edit: Thanks for looking into this.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Aug 13, 2012 - 05:48pm PT
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Roger replaced the belay/rappel anchor bolts in 2007, and this summer he replaced all the protection bolts.
In July, Howie and James and I climbed Lucifer's Ledge up to where Lucifer's Shoes joins it, and fixed Roger's new 600' static line down from there. (Thanks to Mark Melvin and Tom McMillan for donating the new static ropes!)
Roger went up and replaced all the protection bolts except the very first one.
On Sunday I went up and replaced that first bolt - it was actually an older Rawl buttonhead with Leeper hanger - perhaps placed by the original Sailin' Shoes team. Many of the original bolts on Lucifer's Shoes were the stainless 1/4" x 3" wedge bolts that were also used for initial replacement on Hall of Mirrors by Woodward, Bercaw and Hensel in 1992.
I also found and replaced the second-to-last bolt on p3 of Sailin' Shoes, which had broken off some years ago, so Roger didn't see it when I replaced the other bolts in 2007. Thanks to Kelly Rich for pointing out this missing one - he was up there after the '07 replacement and led past the missing bolt!
All the bolts for the surrounding climbs are now marked on a photo overlay (including Slamdance and a newish Beyer route just to the right of Sailin' Shoes), so the integrated Apron West topo will be accurately updated soon.
The fixed lines are down, and the route is all set for climbing - if the temps would just come down a bit.... :-)
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2012 - 06:47pm PT
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if the temps would just come down a bit.... :-) Seems true everywhere right now.
Clint,
Out of curiosity, do you or Roger have an opinion on how well those stainless 1/4" bolts seemed to hold up over time? I'm sure we placed some at other areas as well.
Just wondering if they seemed better/worse/neutral in comparison to the 1/4" split shafts. I'm for replacing all 1/4", bottom line.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Aug 13, 2012 - 07:21pm PT
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Darrell,
Those 1/4" stainless held up really well - they looked pretty darn new.
I left several in on p15 of Hall of Mirrors, as they were difficult to pull due to their length.
Roger eventually used some special spacers to handle their length, as they need to be pulled straight out to avoid breaking them off.
I don't know how well they stack up in terms of strength vs. say 1/4" x 1.5" Rawldrives.
These longer Rawls are pretty stiff and quite strong, but will rust to nothing if they get a lot of water.
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Aug 14, 2012 - 11:46am PT
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Darrell,
They all looked like new. It just took awhile to figure how to get them out without breaking them. The ones used on Hall of Mirrors were longer so they came out harder than the ones on the Sailing Shoes extension. The ones that broke all broke in the same place; where it necks down to 1/8" at the wedge part location. On most routes with more than just a few bolts, we seem to find at least one scary one. All of those stainless ones were really solid. We probably could have left them, but since we were there, we just upgraded everything to 3/8. Replacing a bolt is the easy part, getting there with all the stuff is the hard part.
Roger
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2012 - 12:03am PT
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Clint/Roger,
Thanks for confirming what I hoped (and kind of expected) - that they would still be pretty good. I don't think those bolts had a long window of usage though, at least with us. We used them briefly, then they went the way of the dinosaur when fat bolts became the FA norm.
This gets said quite a bit, but I think it bears being said yet again. Thanks for all the hard work doing bolt maintenance. I've done more than enough bolt replacement, including multi-pitch, to understand what's being undertaken. The quantity of work you've done is truely impressive.
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