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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 15, 2006 - 12:22am PT
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Hey, what's the best/easiest (are they the same thing?) route for first el cap solo (first el cap climb). Anybody have a sense of the real rating on Zodiac these days.
I've done a couple of solos to date but took 4 days on WFLT so I'm no speed demon; and I don't want to spend toooo long up there. What y'all think?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Apr 15, 2006 - 12:49am PT
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No El Cap solo is easy!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 15, 2006 - 12:52am PT
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You ARE going to spend too many nights on EL Cap if the Tower took you 4 days.
So either accept and prepare to spend a lot of time up there, or solo some more 5's like the Prow for instance. I soloed the Prow for my first big solo in 1980 then went for Zodiac the next year. The routes and gear were pretty different then.
Have a great one. Someobody will probably suggest the Trip but I think bailing would be too hard.
Peace
Karl
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rocketsocks
climber
Bellevue, WA
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Apr 15, 2006 - 02:58am PT
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Uhhh, can't you walk up the back side? You could probably do that in a day. That's probably the easiest route, unless you count helicopter rides.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Apr 15, 2006 - 03:06am PT
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Chopper rides rule. Well, except for when they cost five climbers $9000 USD.
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Apr 15, 2006 - 11:16am PT
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Try something on the FAR east face, like the prow...
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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2006 - 11:20am PT
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OK guys, give me a break. 4 days included two trips humping gear plus a half day sitting out the rain/snow. But anyway, whats with Zodiac these days (anyone done it recently?). ST says A2 but that was before clean-up. Still A2?
Zodiac seems "most likely" to me. I figure fix to 4 then 6 days at 2 pitches a day. Sould be doable even for me.
But anyway, more advice and less ribbing would be nice :). Hey, Ricardo made it and he's my hero.
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Apr 15, 2006 - 11:25am PT
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You should gun for 3 a day. A solo is about climbing, if you want to hang in the ledge and chill, bring a partner. They come in handy for fishing beers out of the pig.
The hardest part of soloing is getting out of the ledge in the morning.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 15, 2006 - 12:37pm PT
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There is no comparison between the Tower and Zodiac if any cleanliness remains on it. If you don't want to do the Prow to prepare, definitely solo some real A2+ to A3 where there is no fixed gear to clippy clippy up.
Be prepared for lots of Brass nut Offset and Alien placements that don't feel 100%, sometimes only two or three lobes will touch the rock.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just make sure you are ready because Zodiac is one of the most popular routes on the Captian so if you go when the weather is right and climb 1 or 2 pitches a day, you'll either wind up baiiing or clogging up the experience of numerous other parties.
Definitely shoot for 3 pitches a day. I managed 4 and it was my second grade 6 and there was still tons of nailing on it.
This is nothing personal since I don't know you. You could be the next Ammon for all I know. But the title of this thread is likely to be searched and I'd like to discourage folks in the future from choosing the most popular routes and climbing them before they are ready by taking an insane amount of time.
It's a noble adventure in many ways to do so, but we're sharing a resource that's become increasingly crowded. It wouldn't be cool to spend 5 hours solo aiding Bishops Terrace on Memorial Day weekend, and it's not cool to spend 10 days on Zodiac in my opinion. Others might want to chime in with a different view.
Peace
Karl
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 15, 2006 - 01:16pm PT
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WELL SAID Karl.
and surprisingly ECfool as well. The hardest thing IS getting started. Once you get climbing you become engrossed in technicalities.
Rockermike, you might consider using some of what I recommended to PTPP as it is somewhat less likely to be crowded, has LOTS of great bivies and bailing is easy from the first three fifths.
Muir to the Shroom then 1 pitch from Mammoth move right 3 moves to the perfect A1 splitter of the Dorn (I suppose you could jug Heart but that's not climbing in my book). From Mammoth finish up the 3D.
Hopefully you'll be dialed in by the time you get to the Nose and you won't block the route (less gumbies at that elevation anyway).
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 15, 2006 - 01:52pm PT
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Now Piton Ron's route would be a studly undertaking - that is a full-on solo that is VERY LONG.
Dude, Zodiac is emphatically not the same route it used to be several years ago! I remember when I was soloing something to its left [ZM, L in A or SS, can't remember which one] I once looked down and saw parties on nearly every Zodiac belay! They were up each others' arses.
Then along came Bryan, and things have never been the same.
Prior to the cleanup, it was my observation that about 40-45% of the parties that started Zodiac actually summitted. After the cleanup, that number plummeted to 20-25%. The number is possibly lower, because I observed quite a number of parties going up only a few pitches, discovering the climbing was hard, and then bailing before even committing to the wall. It is entirely possible if not probable that the success ratio is below 20%, because many people got turned back the first day, and I might not have seen them. However I talk to almost everyone I see at the base, and I can tell you I have seen a lot of long faces beneath heavy pigs coming down from the base of Zodiac! [I spend a lot of time on and around El Cap during wall seasons every year, so my observations are a representative sampling]
For parties that did commit to the wall, the Black Tower turned away many more. It's not clip and climb any more, dude, it's probably a legit A3 pitch, depending on how much fixed pro has been returned. You actually have to know how to aid climb. This is a foreign concept to many who consider themselves to be wall climbers.
Ricardo's solo of Zodiac was a very proud accomplishment because it was his first wall ever. But the Zodiac that Ricardo [and many many others] is not the same Zodiac of today that routinely turns away suitors.
You would think that the percentage of soloists who succeed might be even lower, but I don't know if that's true or not. At least when you're soloing, you don't have to worry about your partner bailing. And if you do have to worry about your partner bailing, you should reconsider your choice of a partner. As Chongo would say, soloing big walls is one place where one fool can be more dangerous than two. [Did I say that right?]
The easiest solo up El Cap now would be Lurking Fear. It's a fairly straightforward route with lots of C1. There is some crappy hauling near the top up to Thanksgiving Ledge, so make sure you know how to make a Far-End Hauler system for your pig. If you are smart, you will leave your pig on Thanksgiving, race to the summit and back to Thanksgiving, then rappel the route, saving yourself the very substantial heartache of hauling the West Butt finish, and the L-O-N-G hike over top of El Cap and down the East Ledges.
You might even make it up Lurking Fear, because the climbing is not hard, though harder than the Tower. [Of course, virtually any aid climb is harder than the Tower!]
Ron's route is superb and long, a very proud solo indeed that would be! It would take a helluva long time. You'll need your Far-End Hauler on that one in places, too.
The other obvious solo is Tangerine Trip. The Lost In America to Virginia start up to P4 is quite popular now - just don't deck in the first 25'! [In other words, don't do as I do, do as I say....] But if you climb the first four pitches of the Trip solo, you will have to learn a lot about soloing strange topography, which will be useful knowledge for up higher. The down-climbing fourth pitch is a particular pain. You can fix to the ground from 4. Be smart, and put your rope-joining knot in the middle of an alpine butterfly for easy crossing, and easy untying.
Dude, if you are to solo El Cap via the Trip, it will be a very proud untertaking. Retreat is difficult above 4, but not impossible. However that is the beauty of the route, as you will feel committed. The climbing is probably not as hard as Zodiac is now, but there will be tricky bits that will test you. Make sure you know how to top-step on steep rock, as this will assist you greatly.
It's fine and dandy for real pros like Karl and Ron to suggest you climb it fast, but it's been my experience when starting out that it's better to take your time, and take along enough food and water so you don't have to worry. Better to spend some extra time hauling, than to be suffering up high. If you can manage two pitches per day, you will be doing well enough. And that's all you have to do.
It is, after all, a holiday.
Cheers,
The Doc
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Elcapinyoazz
Mountain climber
Anchorage, Alaska
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Apr 15, 2006 - 02:11pm PT
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I'm going to give you a very unconventional suggestion here:
Eagles Way.
Why?
1. It will not be crowded, in fact I'd be surprised if there's another party on it at all.
2. The climbing is not that hard, but it is definetly a step up from a clean clip up like L-fear or precleanup Zod).
3. You can haul most of the route 2 pitches at a time. If you need or want to do this, you'll figure out how.
4. You can fix to 4, leaving only 15 or so pitches worth of water/food to haul.
5. You get to nail.
6. There are a couple of good bivy ledges, which are nice even if you're sleeping on your ledge at those spots (nice to be able to walk around/stand up/spread crap out/sort)
It might take you a week after fixing, but so what? Nobody will be trying to pass or crawling up your azz.
IMO, the Trip sucks ballz. Unless you like shiny bolt ladders. There's a couple of good pitches on it, but you will learn more and become a better climber from the experience on E-Way. Just note, it gets hot as hell at the bottom in the black diorite.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 15, 2006 - 02:18pm PT
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Hey Pete,
long yes, but that's what EC is for no? The variant I recommended (The Quintuple-Not-So-Direct?) has the redeeming quality of not being very steep for 500m to reduce the intimidation factor as well as probably not having anything much harder than C2.
I've never done Zodiac but while I'm against excessive fixed gear I'm even more against mandatory hammering as this will inevitably result in the degradation of the resource. I have told Bryan that his tactics can have serious drawbacks over the long term without some form of compromise to effect preservation.
I am always wary of the agendas of people that claim to have a noble cause. The rocks bear witness to the product of such crusades.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 15, 2006 - 02:40pm PT
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I was actually thinking about Eagle's Way, too, for the reasons the [unnamed] person above recommends it. [What's your real name anyway, dude? I see you post here a bit]
Ron's Quintuple-Direct would be superb!
Ron, I get you with what you say about cleaning the line, and then having to rehammer it and further harm the rock. What do you reckon would have been a better solution than Minerals'?
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Elcapinyoazz
Mountain climber
Anchorage, Alaska
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Apr 15, 2006 - 03:11pm PT
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I choose to retain my anonymous internet identity for many reasons (i.e. having wife and kids + lunatics+my loud mouth = bad idea, etc).
Ron's idea about the low slabby angle/less committing feel is valid, but then you have PITA hauling down low when the bags are heaviest. Just a thought.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 15, 2006 - 03:37pm PT
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First yoazz;
you're right about the hauling. I would fix four ropes maxed out first (should get you close to Mammoth) and carry relays in 20 kilo loads on my back (like walking up stairs). Each time I rapped I would remote release a bag and counterweight haul it. When I go for it I'd drop one rope to a friend (makes for a feeling of commitment, "OK now I'm really going for it.")
There are enough ledges you wouldn't need to carry one. And you can lighten your load in other ways as well.
(if you go strapped you can jack a party for water on the Nose. Haha, just kidding,......or am I?)
PTPP, I can't say that there IS a solution but I think that there ARE things we could do to mitigate damage and maintain the viability of routes.
First off we need to hold FHAs in the same high regard that we do FFAs. A first hammerless ascent should be a goal that we work towards and then honor when it is achieved by NOT hammering on the route any more as that would be akin to chipping on a route that already goes free. If it is harder to do in that manner so be it. It is not elitism to preserve viability, its only good sense.
This may require SOME critical fixing. The trick is to only fix what would otherwise be destroyed.
Sometimes constructive scarring can render a route nutable.
So much the better.
Perhaps most important is that we must be willing to compromise. Examples of the devastation caused by people unwilling to do so who care only for their own ends are legion.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 15, 2006 - 03:44pm PT
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PTPP,
I just realized I mis-spoke. Since it uses only the Muir, the Shroom, the Dorn, and the Nose, and doesn't use the Salathe it would actually only be the Quad D.
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Apr 15, 2006 - 05:06pm PT
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Geez Ron,
You act like you don't like me. I like you...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 15, 2006 - 06:22pm PT
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I never said you didn't have redeeming qualities whereas in my case I'm afraid suffering fools gladly is not among my few. Could it be that you are mistaken? I certainly could be.
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Apr 15, 2006 - 06:30pm PT
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I'm quite sure we'd get along very well, over a lot of brass and glass if you get my meaning. We met at the trade show a few years back. No, you aren't expected to remember me, but I remember you.
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