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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 6, 2011 - 04:11pm PT
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Then again.....can it be infinite? Either possibility boggles the imagination. I just got to the Atacama Desert, a place that brings cosmological questions to mind.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Hey Jim - I've spent some wonderful days and nights in the Atacama checking out mountain tops for siting a giant telescope. That place is magical.
EDIT: and the universe has zero curvature and is infinite based on the WMAP results. Probably the zero curvature is the result of a very early phase of exponential inflation of spacetime.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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I took the train from Antofagasta to La Paz, one of the most incredible rides ever.
As for finite vs. infinite: what is longer, for ever or never? The human mind cannot imagine infinite space. Although it's fun to try!
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Collie-Rad-O! (FC to be exact)
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Universe???? There's "MULTI-VERSES" out there...or so the theory goes...try wrapping your head around that one!
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MH2
climber
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I don't think the universe is currently infinite. The microwave background studies give good estimates of the stuff in it and the age is not infinite either. However, it looks to be headed for infinite age and expanse (and zero density?) but will take a while to get there.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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I know one this for sure. The universe if fakkin huge. Major league.
I used to go up on the Puna and look down at the Atacama basin to feel that way though. It's all perspective.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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We'll never know for certain if it's infinite. There'll be no way to prove it directly.
We could eventually find out that it's finite.
A lot depends on how we define "universe"
If we mean the universe we live in, it appears to be of finite extent and of definite age.
Current interpretations of astronomical observations indicate that the age of the universe is 13.75 ± 0.17 billion years,[6] and that the diameter of the observable universe is at least 93 billion light years or 8.80×1026 metres.[7] According to general relativity, space can expand faster than the speed of light, although we can view only a small portion of the universe due to the limitation imposed by light speed. Since we cannot observe space beyond the limitations of light (or any electromagnetic radiation), it is uncertain whether the size of the universe is finite or infinite. Although the universe MAY be much larger than we know, even possibly infinite.
If indeed there are other universes, there may or may not be an infinite number of them.
This all begs the question of what was before the Big Bang. Would we consider that as part of our Universe as well? What if, as we understand the word "thing", there was nothing before the Big Bang?
What is meant by infinite?
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Jim,
Enjoy your stay in the Atacama. The desert has always been my favorite environment and can only imagine what your seeing right now.
I had a great time at Joshua Tree climbing with you, I really learned a lot believe it or not. I am determined to become a better crack climber, you got me motivated and will be back out at JT soon because of it.
Thanks,
Kevin Mokracek
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bmacd
Mountain climber
100% Canadian
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good questions but no answer is possible
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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The age of the galaxies, suns, and planets, might be something we think that we can calculate but I don't think that there is any way at all to know if there is empty space out there beyond all of the matter we predict exists. Maybe things wrap around the the other side, maybe there is empty space, and maybe there is a brick wall painted black so we can't see it.
The only thing we can know about are the measurable parts and once matter is accounted for, there is a whole lot of nothing that can't really be measured.
Neither finite or infinite are things we can comprehend because the concept of a finite universe just begs the question; what is beyond the edge of that finite thing?
Dave
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gunsmoke
Mountain climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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For the past 100 years each discovery in physics seems to paint a yet more complex picture of this universe. Each new theory seems less intuitive and more bizarre than the one before. The day of the average joe having any accurate understanding of how the universe works is long gone.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Can physics tell me if the effect of today's Indian buffet lunch will be finite?
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Dave - you can have finite universes with no boundaries in the dimensions that define your universe. The old surface of a sphere analogy works well. An ant that only senses the two dimensions on the surface of the sphere goes for a walk and after a while is right where he started because the space is curved. But, the ant never saw any boundary to its finite universe.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Has anyone read the Elegant Universe or The Fabric of the Cosmos? Mind blowing ramifications in terms of time-space and perceptions of the multiverse. I like the concept of a loaf of bread with infinite slices, perhaps only a milimeter away, but that might as well be on the other side of the universe..
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Back to the original query: unless there is a chain link fence at the edge of the universe, methinks the answer would be yes.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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The universe is still expanding..in fact, it is speeding up in its expansion rather than slowing down, so essentially, it hasn't stopped growing yet. That would make it finite, at least at this point.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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I suppose it would be, if it keeps expanding outward. I guess like any explosion, it will reach some sort of dispersing point, right? Like, the fabric of matter would be stretched too thin that the spaces within the atoms themselves would become too distant to function and matter would begin breaking down at that level. Light included.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Is it the Fibonacci Number that solves everything?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
 Hamlet, 1601 (William Shakespeare)
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