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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 6, 2011 - 07:04am PT
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Tonight's revelation from within: The suddenly increased threat of war with Iran is directly related to the threat to Elite Money by the OWS Movement.
The corrupt underbelly of our financial system is being revealed. Even the education that the movement inspires is a huge threat. Few know that banks and the fed create money out of thin air and the Fed can make trillions with no oversight or transparent audit.
If too much more gets uncovered, there becomes an existential threat posed to the highest in power and money. If we get into a hot conflict, everybody rallies around the flag and any dissent and protest get's portrayed as treasonous and inappropriate during war time.
Lesson in History: Sept 10th 2001, Don Rumsfeld announces 2.4 Trillion is unaccounted for in the defense budget. Next day the towers fell. Nobody asked about the 2.4 trillion except us fringe types.
Recently Bloomberg reports that many trillions were secretly loaned to certain banks at virtually no interest, and those banks often turned around and invested that loaned money in Treasuries at 3%, earning billions in interest at taxpayer expense. How is the status Quo going to distract us for seeing the very core of it's corruption?
War is the only sure distraction from that and heartless greed either rationalizes or does not care the human cost of it's own self-preservation.
We, as a human species, have come to a crossroads of extreme gravity. Will we surrender to Greed and Fear at the expense of countless lives and our own prosperity, or will embrace a new paradigm of humanity, cooperation, fairness, and transparency. This is not theoretical. The demons we fight in our system are also hidden within us, so let's look at our stuff and align with Love and Humanity.
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2011 - 07:58am PT
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http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/12/has-a-war-with-iran-already-begun/249467/
Two incidents that occurred on Sunday--Iran's claim of a shoot-down of a U.S. drone, and an explosion outside the British embassy in Bahrain--may have been unrelated. But they appear to add to growing evidence that an escalating covert war by the West is under way against Iran, and that Tehran is retaliating with greater intensity than ever.
Asked whether the United States, in cooperation with Israel, was now engaged in a covert war against Iran's nuclear program that may include the Stuxnet virus, the blowing-up of facilities and the assassination or kidnapping of scientists, one recently retired U.S. official privy to up-to-date intelligence would not deny it.
"It's safe to say the Israelis are very active," the official said, adding about U.S. efforts: "Everything that [GOP presidential candidate] Mitt Romney said we should be doing--tough sanctions, covert action and pressuring the international community -- are all of the things we are actually doing." Though the activities are classified, a senior Obama administration official also would not deny that such a program was under way. He indicated that the U.S. was not involved in every action, referring to recent alleged explosions at Isfahan and elsewhere. But, he added: "I wouldn't assume that everything we do is coordinated."
Former undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns, who oversaw America's Iran engagement during the Bush administration, asked Sunday about reports that the U.S. program began under George W. Bush, said he could not comment on intelligence matters.
Photos of an Iranian military base near Bid Kaneh in before (top) and after (bottom) a large explosion reportedly occurred, apparent damage from which can be seen / Institute for Science and International Security
In September, the head of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran, Fereydoun Abbasi-Davani, accused Great Britain, Israel and the U.S. of conducting attacks on him and other Iranian scientists."Six years ago the intelligence service of the UK began collecting information and data regarding my past, my family, the number of children," Abbasi-Davani told a news conference at the annual conference of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in Vienna. Abbasi-Davani, who was said to have been wounded in 2010 car bomb explosion, said the attacks were carried out by Israel with the "support of the intelligence services of the United States and England."
Last week, Iranian protesters stormed the British embassy in Tehran. Dominick Chilcott, Britain's ambassador to Iran, later said the attack occurred "with the acquiescence and the support of the state." Then, on Sunday, Bahrain's interior ministry announced that an explosion occurred inside a minibus parked near the British Embassy. There were no immediate reports of serious damage or injuries.
MORE FROM NATIONAL JOURNAL:
Unmanned U.S. Plane Shot Down in Iran
White House Condemns Storming of British Embassy in Iran
Iran Again Dominates GOP Debate
U.S. officials alleged in October that agents acting for Iran's Revolutionary Guard, which has increasingly exerted control over the Tehran regime, were involved in a plot to kill that Saudi ambassador to Washington in a restaurant. Iran denied the allegations. Then, on Sunday, in what have been another escalation, Iran's news agency reported that Iranian armed forces shot down an unmanned U.S. spy plane that illegally crossed the country's eastern border.
Responding to the Iranian report, NATO command in Afghanistan released a terse statement Sunday: "The UAV to which the Iranians are referring may be a US unarmed reconnaissance aircraft that had been flying a mission over western Afghanistan late last week. The operators of the UAV lost control of the aircraft and had been working to determine its status."
The White House declined to comment but officials did not seem unduly alarmed, suggesting that the drone's capture would not provide Iran with significant information about U.S. surveillance technology and techniques.
Trita Parsi, president of the National Iranian American Council in Washington, said the tit-for-tat incidents "add up to a very worrisome picture," in part because "the Iranians are absorbing all of these assassinations without seeing the pace of their nuclear program slow down to the extent it would be acceptable to the West." But if Iranian retaliations grow serious enough, he said, they could provide "the pretext for a much larger war" in which the Israelis, and possibly the Americans, launch a full attack on Iran.
Mark Hibbs, a nuclear expert at the Carnegie Endowment in Germany, says the intensity of the covert war indicates that this is where the U.S. and Israel are putting their energy for now. "If the U.S. or Israel were determined to take Iran's nuclear installations out they wouldn't be wasting time pinpointing individual scientists like this," he says. Still, he points out, that Israel's 1981 attack on Iraq's Osirak reactor was also preceded by assassination attempts on Iraqi scientists.
By accident or not, it's entirely possible the covert war could escalate into a real one, experts say. "I am less enthusiastic about how effective all this going to be than some people in the administration," says Matthew Bunn, a nuclear investigator at Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government. Bunn says he has occasionally discussed the program with the Obama administration officials, and "some have broadly suggested they think this is major element of slowing down Iranian progress."
He's not so sure. "Take Stuxnet. It's possible that a thousand centrifuges went down" because of sabotage by the mystery computer virus _ a super sophisticated program said to have caused substantial parts of Iran's uranium enrichment program to self-destruct several years ago. "But Iran has a thousand more than they would require to enrich to highly enriched uranium" needed for a bomb. Bunn also notes that Iran is increasingly keeping its key scientists such as Mohsen Fakrizadeh, said to be the "Oppenheimer" of the Iranian program, hidden away from sight and burying its facilities deeper underground.
Beyond that, says Hibbs, "Some of the concern in the expert community is that in going this route we're unleashing forces we cannot control."
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Reeotch
Trad climber
Kayenta, AZ
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Hitting the nail on the hed there Karl.
Just say NO! to more war.
NO!
There is only one candidate with the guts to say it, right now. But he has other issues.
It has to come from the bottom up . . .
God help us
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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If you disappear , we'll know what happened to you...Lay low Karl...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2011 - 08:20am PT
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I've meant to write this up more polished and linked and try to publish it but there is a part of me that feels like it would be making a target of myself.
There have been other instances in recent years where widespread publicity fingering the government about to disingenuously attack seems to have disarmed that opportunity.
What to do? It's way too important a crisis not to speak up.
We're coming to a breaking point.
Peace
Karl
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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What an opportune time for withdrawing troops from Iraq..I bet they don't go too far. Just a little reoutfitting and repositioning and they're ready to go.....again.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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It would be a shame if fatty's fondest dream comes true.
But oh yeah, he hates war, it's just that these religious tyrants bring it on their own people......
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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As he is calling for an audit of the Fed, (and is the only no war candidate) are you saying that they need a way to disgrace Ron Paul now as well.....
...never mind, he can take care of that himself. Carry on!
someone bring on some links! I just heard from a climbing partner the other day that the Titanic was sunk to kill 4 rich people so as to prevent opposition to the fed from being created. Now, it sounded too far out to me, but you can find this story on the internet. Astor, in particular, was one of the richest man in the world at the time and a very interesting person. Let his lady get on the lifeboat and he stayed on the ship.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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I just realized why it is hard for people to believe Karl.
If you are ignorant of how the Fed and other systems work, it seems too far fetched to believe if you hear it all at once, with the conclusion in the same sentence.
You have to learn about the Fed first.
The other way people think is to incredibly scary to believe, so people discount it.
But I have thought this for 15 years, never thought I would see the US in this state so soon. But your society is following a logical course given the direction by the fed, lobbyists, corporations, millitary, reserve oil dollar etc.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2011 - 11:11am PT
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war,
Welcome to the new Republican Party, NO MORE DEBT.
Not even for payroll tax cuts, or solar panels, or health care.
The evil one
But Yes to Debt for War and keeping tax cuts for the wealthiest
Peace
Karl
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Republican Party, NO MORE DEBT.
can you put those phrases in one sentence?
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WBraun
climber
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The whole thing is rooted from Israel.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2011 - 11:28am PT
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The other way Iran fits into this picture is by being a huge oil producing nation that resists the US insistence that oil be sold in US dollars as the reserve currency. The recycling of petro-dollars is one of the great tricks of the financial system and few understand how the ruling money cannot tolerate Iran stepping outside the system. Iraq tried to do it too,
Believing OWS and an Iran war are related could be a stretch for people. It involves seeing into the behind the scenes underpinnings of our system that people don't pry into until they smell fish. Then there is a reluctance to accept what you find because, like accepting that you have cancer, there is a denial that doesn't want to see it.
We're the best, right? We always win, right?
We really thought Iraq had WMDs, and we somehow fail to read all the evidence that the Administration totally knew in advance that this was just a false pretext (see Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson, but high level Iraqi defectors) it seems inconceivable that trillions of dollars and so many human lives get burnt over a cold calculation to dominate politically, financially, and strategically.
Now we want to attack a new country with alleged WMDs. It must be true cause we read about it. Even if it is true, having messed up one place based on a false WMD suspicion, It's hard to stomach having the right to play that card again.
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2011 - 11:40am PT
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This is by no means a GOP fault only BTW. Both parties are bought and sold by the same influence that rules the money. The politicians are just management in this game and work for the owners, the finance system with its corporate tie-in.
How else can you get a billion dollars to run for president? and you couldn't get popular enough to raise that billion in small contributions if the mainstream media and it's corporate masters didn't want you to have a chance. On either side of the fence, right or left, there are people speaking a truth that others choose to ignore, Ron Paul and Kucinich, and the media tells us they are nuts without a chance so it must be true. They might have their own issues but total nonsense from the other clowns gets more respect than real insight from these guys
Peace
Karl
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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What's wrong with the TRUTH Fats?
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Reeotch
Trad climber
Kayenta, AZ
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re. links about the Fed
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912
Watch the first 30 min. or so for a mind blowing description about how money is created.
The thing that gets me is that this system only works if there is more debit than there is money. Which means that some people must lose. The system guarantees it!
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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I'd be interested in seeing a reasoned response from Fattrad on Karls points.
I had read this particular point Karl makes a long time ago and it made sense to me then: The other way Iran fits into this picture is by being a huge oil producing nation that resists the US insistence that oil be sold in US dollars as the reserve currency. The recycling of petro-dollars is one of the great tricks of the financial system and few understand how the ruling money cannot tolerate Iran stepping outside the system. Iraq tried to do it too,
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WBraun
climber
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Pogo was right, the enemy is us.
Yes
And that IS the bottom (root) line ......
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