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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 8, 2006 - 03:35am PT
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OK here it is. (Gawd! I hope this doesn't need to be labeled part 1.)
Sound off. I'll be back later.
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
pitch above you
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Is this a proposed movie title, or a climbing technique? Either way, I'd say somebody's getting screwed.
Drilled pockets = chipping = unnecessary roughness (10 m penalty slack)
Why wreck the rock?
--->bob
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CAMNOTCLIMB
Trad climber
novato ca
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Rock, you nailed it.
Brian
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Edge
Trad climber
New Durham, NH
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While I agree with the absolutely, positively, no chipping tone of the above posts, I cannot ever condone the practice of "penalty slack."
If you don't know why, then please do not reply.
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
On the outside looking in.
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Why?
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
pitch above you
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"If you don't know why, then please do not reply."
Are you a graduate of the GWB school of constructive dialog? I'm gonna go ahead and join Blowboarder and ask:
Why?
Sheesh you can't even make a joke around here without someone getting all in a bunch about it.
--->bob
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I was wondering how dental hygene was working its way into the ST forum
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burp
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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Mr. Piton Ron ...
Just curious what your reasoning and/or justification was for allegedly drilling those pockets in Snow Canyon and on that boulder in ZNP.
Any input?
Enjoy!
burp
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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He's looking out for all of us... a kinder, gentler Big Brother.
They're never gonna let this one go, Ron. Maybe you should just say " I f*#ked up and I learned from it, let's move on."
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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if you wanted a discussion, why not lay out the foundation for one? seems like this topic is limited to the few who are familiar w/ your history (or rumors about it?).
why not come clean and then ask for the sounding off?
edit-
were you expecting people to post up in favor of drilling pockets to make climbs go free? not likely.
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
On the outside looking in.
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This thread needs a trip to Davey Jones Locker for maximum value.
"Calling DJ to the flame room, DJ to the flame room, your appointment is ready...."
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
On the outside looking in.
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Oh, and for what it's worth, if you can't see the superior product obtained with a little "comfortizing" and "customization" over the raw deal mother nature provides, you have no vision.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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ie. Menace to Sobriety - ORG
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kevin Fosburg
Sport climber
park city,ut
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Good point Matt, I agree.
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BCD
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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CAMNOTCLIMB wrote:
"...you nailed it"
That made me laugh. I hope you meant it as a joke. There are a large number of people on this forum that chip holds for upward progress, yet hypocritically bash free climbers that chip holds for upward progress. So if anyone else bothers to respond to this thread, you need to take that into consideration when thinking about their responses.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2006 - 10:11pm PT
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Matt this was a continuation/spinoff from "Can't get nuts, OK to nail?".
I stand ready to discuss the issue of drilled pockets vs other forms of impact with climbers who can attempt to remain open minded and moderately respectful (well I can hope can't I). It would greatly enhance credibility if people used their real names as well. Furthermore calling people Nazis as well as perjorative terms such as "dumbing down" (very offensive to someone who has lost the power of speech) will adversely affect my willingness to explore this issue.
As stated my name is Ron Olevsky and I feel that aid climbing is a sort of prosthetic free climbing. The gear becomes an extension of the body. As such I see aid bolts as the ethical equivalent of fingers in drilled pockets. No worse and no better.
While the impact of drilled pockets is substantial initially it then achieves a sort of stability as opposed to serial hammering in aid where the scar continues to worsen. Such scars can grow to dwarf most drilled pockets and achieve no stability as well.
While the very idea can infuriate some of todays climbers so did pitons, bolts, rap bolting and even cams at some point. I suspect that as many free routes get eroded and worn that those who use them may begin to feel like Christian Scientists with acute appendicitis. That drilled pockets (especially in places where they are less likely to be footworn) offer one potential tool in the arsenal for maintaining route viability.
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BCD
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Chipping holds is chipping holds.
Whether it is meant to hold a piton, an aid bolt, or a finger, you are still altering the rock in order to make it climbable.
"dumbing down" is a good term for both forms of chipping. If we can't climb it, we'll MAKE it climbable!
Why don't you just hike to the top?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2006 - 10:35pm PT
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Please read more carefully Del.
PIN SCARS worsen with repeated use.
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Blowboarder
Boulder climber
On the outside looking in.
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So, that face in Snow Creek that you drilled pockets in for free climbing purposes, that was in danger of being pinned out and ruined?
Just want to make sure I'm following ya correctly...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2006 - 11:25pm PT
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You are not.
Who are you to begin with?
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